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Oklahoma City and the Triangle

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The Triangle offense has won 11 championships since 1990. It has produced hundreds of wins. It’s produced the greatest player, the greatest coach and the greatest team ever.

Phil Jackson’s Triangle has been one of the most successful offensive systems ever in basketball. It worked with the Bulls and it worked with the Lakers. Some have wondered if it was the players or the system or a perfect combination of both, but the results don’t lie — the Triangle worked.

At Grantland, Chuck Klosterman was wondering why no one uses it anymore and had this little nugget in there:

“‘When I look at Oklahoma City,’ the anonymous coach said, ‘I see a team that is built to run the Triangle. They are so designed to run the Triangle that it’s almost a joke. Imagine them running a two-man game on the weak side with [Kevin] Durant and [Russell] Westbrook. Who the f— is gonna stop that?’ In theory, no one. In practice, everyone, because Oklahoma City doesn’t run the Triangle. Nobody does. And that reality is more complicated than the offense itself.”

OK, so how exactly does the Triangle work? Three main keys:

1. Anyone can score from anywhere.

2. Knowing your “automatic” passes. In some places there are passes that are supposed to happen as a function of the offense, kind of like they are set off by a situation.

3. Spacing, timing and movement.

Watch this video:

The main principles of the Triangle are this though: Spacing, moving, passing and multiple shot options. The problems for the Thunder currently in Scott Brooks’ offense: Not enough spacing, moving, passing or enough shot options. Some like to blame Russell Westbrook for that, but I’ve often felt it was the system. Not because it’s a bad one, but because in basketball, plays don’t always work, even when they’re designed really well.

We all watched as the Thunder offense bogged down in the later stages of games last postseason because teams were able to easily take away Kevin Durant’s ability to move around screens and free himself. When Durant did get the ball, he was quickly bracketed and was forced to give the ball away to Westbrook who then found himself with a hot potato basketball and six seconds on the shot clock.

So it’s a legit question: Why don’t the Thunder run the Triangle? I asked Scott Brooks exactly that.

“I have a lot of respect for Phil Jackson and all the success he had in the Triangle offense,” Brooks said. “I think we have a good enough team to run a lot of different things because Kevin’s a pretty special player that he can play multiple positions and spots on the floor.”

OK, so would it be possible to just insert it into certain situations, almost like you might call a motion offense or something, you could bust out the Triangle? Probably not, because it’s just too complicated to really get the full effect of it.

I think the Triangle is a lot like the Wishbone. It seems like it should work. It’s innovative, puts a ton of pressure on the defense and has multiple options, all which lead to success, especially in the past. It’s been extremely successful over time and teams have won titles with it. Except nobody uses it anymore. Why?

“I haven’t been around it enough to really know, other than scouting against it,” Brooks said. “Like any offense, it’s more important when you diagram the plays who are the O’s you have on the floor and the X’s you have against them. And then the offense, you could have a Triangle offense and have bad players and that offense isn’t looking good … you have to have an offense that suits your players and we feel pretty comfortable that our guys are doing a good job establishing that.

One problem with the Triangle in Oklahoma City though: It’s sort of designed to eliminate the point guard. Because everyone can be a point guard. Everyone can feed the post, everyone can make a play. That’s good when your point guard is Derek Fisher or John Paxson. Not as good when Russell Westbrook is a wild playmaker than you do wonderful things outside of a system.

Because that was a major frustration for Kobe within the Triangle. He loved breaking it. He loved going rouge and doing things on his own. It worked a lot, and it didn’t a lot. You’re telling me that Westbrook wouldn’t see a weakness and attack like a rabid dog at the rim? Westbrook would break it like he was Gilbert Brown jumping on some box springs.

Here’s what Triangle mastermind Phil Jackson said about that:

“The problem with the Triangle is that you have to teach the most basic, basic skills: Footwork. Where you stand on the floor. And if you have the kind of player who wants to attack and score every time he touches the ball, he will hurt this offense.”

Well… that’s a problem in OKC. The Thunder have one perfect Triangle player and he’s got a giant beard. Durant would work relatively well in the system because he could score 30 if the offense included four whitetail deer running four-corner stall ball. It’s just how it is. But Westbrook, that’s a different story. He’s not built like Fisher. Hold it right there, I’m not saying he’s not a point guard. I’m just saying Westbrook’s not the type of point guard that can suppress the urge to attack.

Fact is, the Thunder might have too much offensive talent for the Triangle to work. That sounds absurd, I know, but pieces need to fit in the Triangle. It’s why players like Steve Kerr, Luke Walton, Sasha Vujacic, Bill Wennington, Jud Buechler and others were so valuable. The keys like Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Pau Gasol and Scottie Pippen drive the car, but the role players keep it running.

The Triangle attempts to sort of put creative players in a cage and force them to play mini-games within the game. Like Klosterman said, in theory, it’s a wonderful thing. You get Westbrook and Durant and Ibaka in a triangle isolated on the left wing, splitting off with Russ and KD working a little two man game as Harden cuts off the weak side. It could be a beautiful thing. But the Triangle is a commitment. It’s complicated, it’s frustrating and installing it is difficult. It’s about getting players to buy in completely and with all this offensive talent in Oklahoma City, that’s hard to see happening.

Besides, it’s not like the Thunder suffered offensively last season. This was a top five offense in both points per game and in offensive efficiency. Sometimes that didn’t show, but it’s hard to know if that was more a product of the offensive structure or more a product of a young team having a hard time figuring out to do when the pressure and moment really mattered.

Does the Triangle sound like a perfect fit in theory? Sure it does. It seems like it would fit everywhere in theory, but in the end, it often isn’t practical. Ask last season’s Timberwolves. Well, maybe that’s not the best example.

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supreethm92 14 pts

If we tried to install the Triangle, it would have to be next season because there just isn't enough time to start changing things up and have it work for the Thunder. But it does sound like a good offense to start looking into in certain situations because if you guys saw John Hollinger's profile of the Thunder, he exposed that KD is pretty weak when it comes to moving without the ball. If we had a system with more flow and a lot more movement where we swing the ball around a lot more, then we would be able to get a wide open shooter a lot because if you had Westbrook or Durant posting up then they will probably draw a double team and with good spacing, like in the video and Harden, Maynor, Cook can knock down open shots.

OkcBaby 171 pts

Scrimmage looked promising. Perk looks more athletic. Could give us a scoring punch. Cross fingers. Thabo knocking down shots. Westbrook assists going up is a plus. Harden and Maynor gel so well. Russ and KD improving chemistry. Cant wait for gameday!

kfmsooner 29 pts

Any news on what the rotations/playing time will be Sunday? Also, how does League Pass work? I don't have NBA TV but I do have league pass for a few weeks. Will the Sunday nite game be on League Pass?

f5alcon 273 pts

The other big reason we should not use the triangle is all the players need to be able to pass, and ibaka and perkins are not great passers and ibaka has stone hands.

The best offense for us is a pick and roll offense with KD being the pick man, if the defense stays with him russ gets to the rim, if the defense goes with russ kd gets open looks.

Bsooreal 41 pts

f5alcon

i disagree perk is a pretty good passer.... its the catching he has trouble on. Serge has stone hands.

f5alcon 273 pts

Bsooreal yeah looking at his numbers in boston you are right.

justin_mia 410 pts

Word is Perkins looked good at the scrimmage.

Grolgar 142 pts

That is good news. Where did you hear this? I've been looking for an update...

Daniel Hawaii 208 pts

Grolgar Mayberry mentioned it in his recap of the scrimmage on NewsOK. There is also a video recap on thunder.nba.com and someone who was there posted a highlight video on YouTube. Perk was running out on fast breaks and dunking the ball with ease. It was very impressive and encouraging.

kfmsooner 29 pts

jallenmorrisjustin_mia Thanks for the video. Perk looked like he was moving very well. He had 2 nice drives where he elevated above the rim and finished with layups. He also had a catch and dunk under the basket. This was the best play and a good sign. To see Perk dunk from a flat-footed start was very encouraging. he did it with ease...

Darin 33 pts

I have 3 extra parking passes for the season I need to sell. If anyone is interested please let me know.

Darin 33 pts

Serghei Ibaka

Santa Fe - $100 for the season. I might not get them in time for the preseason game.

Old Man Game 192 pts

Darin Really, this would be good for all 33 regular season games for only $100. Where'd you get these?

Old Man Game 192 pts

Darin What I'm saying is I'm interested if this is legit.

Darin 33 pts

Serghei Ibaka

I have 8 Club level season tickets. They give (1) parking pass for every 2 seats you buy in Club Level... I get 4 passes for the season and I can only use 1. It is legit.

It will be for all 33 games.

Darin 33 pts

Serghei Ibaka

If you want one I can meet you at the game Tuesday night so you can see it... and buy it if you want it.

Old Man Game 192 pts

Darin Alright. That sounds really good. Is there some way I can contact you?

Old Man Game 192 pts

Darin Cool. I'll e-mail you Monday and figure out the details if that's cool.

Bsooreal 41 pts

Darin

i would like one too. that is a good deal really. Ill check your profile for an email.

SmackDaddy 6 pts

DarinBsooreal

I have a spare parking pass as well that I will sell for the same price. Club seats for me, but I park in the Santa Fe garage for work so i get in free anyways. If anyone is interested, just email me at lgball_at_gmail_dot_com

Old Man Game 192 pts

How does this process work in terms of how much he gets paid? I keep seeing "only $2 million" but what if another team wants him? Do they bid more and that means the Nets pay less? Or does it go to Outlaw? Or does he become a free agent?

Daniel Hawaii 208 pts

Serghei Ibaka Any team under the cap can bid as much as they want on him, up until they reach the $58 million cap threshold. So if the Thunder are currently at $55 million in salaries (which may or may not be correct), then they can bid up to $3 million for Outlaw. The team that bids the highest amount gets him. They would then be on the hook for that amount. New Jersey has to pay the rest.

If no one picks him up off amnesty, Outlaw gets the full amount of his contract, PLUS he gets to become an unrestricted free agent, sign with any team he wants and get a second salary.

That's why players like Chauncey and Baron Davis were trying to scare teams away from claiming them off amnesty. Not only did they want to be able to choose their own team, they also wanted to "double dip" and have a second paycheck coming their way.

Bsooreal 41 pts

outlaw is great if he comes off the bench for ten mins a game. he's perfect for that. not shootin threes. his % is a false good in my book. in PDX they never had success with him as a starter or a main offensive threat. his defense did come on in the last years there. In NJ he forgot how to play defense all together. His main goal has always been "getting mad dough" . he should be an ok locker room guy but not a battier.

Old Man Game 192 pts

I'm totally down with Outlaw if we were actually lucky enough to get him. What went wrong last season for him New Jersey though? I watched him a lot in Portland and he seemed like a great young player.

JimboSlice 198 pts

I'll go on record as saying I definitely have my fingers crossed for an Outlaw sighting. I really liked him in Portland, and he's young enough I think he could fit into our culture and grow with us and end up giving us way more bang for the buck than most other guys out there

OkcBaby 171 pts

Drose with 6 turnovers. 10-10 FT Looks like Kobe is going to be preoccupied. Should have been faithful.

Daniel Hawaii 208 pts

I'm going to take it a step further on this Travis Outlaw amnesty situation. I now believe that Sam Presti would be STUPID... yes STUPID, to not put a $2 million bid or whatever cap space we have left on Outlaw.

You would be getting a 6-foot-9 3-pt shooter for the next 4 years at $2 million a year, with New Jersey paying the rest of the tab. What an incredible bargain that would be.

What if Kevin Durant gets hurt? We have zero good options at small forward. Outlaw for $2 million would be a great insurance policy. It would be STUPID not to put in a bid on him. He's an experienced player in a position of need for us.

BID ON OUTLAW, PRESTI.

justin_mia 410 pts

Daniel Hawaii Outlaw has one season with a TS% appreciably above 50$... he is a chucker from mid-range which kills his efficiency. Doesn't get to the rim a lot, or the line. For $2 million he's okay but unless he gets close to where he was that one season in Portland I don't think he'd be that much better than Lazar Hayward. Outlaw might have been the worst starting player in the NBA last season.

Daniel Hawaii 208 pts

justin_mia He's not a chucker. He shot 38 percent from 3pt range for 4 straight seasons. He's also a very athletic guy who can finish at the rim.

I expected to go on YouTube and find videos of him shooting jump shots, but the videos are of him slamming it in left and right. For the bargain bin price of just $2 million a year, we could have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D3GQgFeyfo&fea...

Bsooreal 41 pts

Daniel Hawaiijustin_mia

troutlaw never had a good reliable 3pt. His % might have sky rocketted that year due to system controls and everyone focusing on the late BRoy. I would not sign him on hopes to have another 3pt specialist. neVerrrrrr (sandlot slow motion voice)

kfmsooner 29 pts

justin_miaDaniel Hawaii Hes definitely not must have. The 4 years left is what would scare me, even at just 2 mil...btw, you realize most youtube videos are 'highlights'...don't know that I've seen too many youtube videos of mid-range jumpers...but justin's correct, Outlaw is a chucker.

Daniel Hawaii 208 pts

kfmsoonerjustin_mia You guys realize Kwame Brown just got $7 million? For less than 1/3 of that, we could have this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FC5IIV2u9o&fea...

$2 million is nothing! That's about what we're paying BJ Mullens. This is as big a no-brainer as it gets.

shiki 67 pts

Daniel Hawaii After I read the news Kings bid AK47 for $9M I think OUtlaw is the only one who is cheap and can be backup of KD in free agent market.But Can we get him by $2M?It is said NY are interested in him

Daniel Hawaii 208 pts

shiki Yes we can! The Knicks can't claim him off the amnesty waiver wire. Only teams under the salary cap can bid on amnestied players. The Knicks are hoping no one, like us, puts in a bid on him and he becomes an unrestricted free agent. At that point, Outlaw can go anywhere and the Knicks can sign him for $2.5 million. But right now we have the rare opportunity to get a capable small forward for very cheap, while Mikhail Prokhorov foots most of the bill.

Old Man Game 192 pts

Daniel Hawaiikfmsoonerjustin_mia I think that's why he'll get more than this.

Old Man Game 192 pts

Daniel Hawaii Outlaw had a huge dunk on Garnett his last season in Portland. I remember the Portland commentator screaming, "He dunked right in Garnett's face!" It was sweet.

justin_mia 410 pts

Daniel Hawaii To clarify I'd probably take him at that price but I don't think it's so much of a no-brainer...

Grolgar 142 pts

Are you sure Outlaw would be fall into the role of 8-10 minutes a game? Presti wouldn't bring on a player that would cause problems by complaining about playing time... And if you were Outlaw would you want to play for a team where you get 20-30 minutes or one where you get between 0-10? Daniel Hawaii would be STUPID not to consider this possibility.

JimboSlice 198 pts

Grolgar that last line made me chuckle a little. That is definitely a valid question though. I figure we could squeeze him about 15 minutes or so, but it'd be at Thabo's expense, which I still don't see happening with Brooks' "continuity" theories

Old Man Game 192 pts

JimboSliceGrolgar This gets to why I don't think we're lucky enough to get him. I think there'll be other teams wanting him that can offer him more PT than we will.

Daniel Hawaii 208 pts

Serghei Ibaka I have absolutely no problem with that. If another team outbids us, that's fine. All I want is for us to try. The Clippers got Chauncey Billups for the ridiculously low price of $2 million. We can get a similarly good deal for a backup small forward, which last time I checked, was a position of need.

Daniel Hawaii 208 pts

Grolgar If God forbid KD gets injured and we're stuck without a small forward, you'll be wishing we invested a measly $2 million on Travis Outlaw. I don't see him as a guy who is going to ruffle feathers over a lack of playing time. I think he'd be very happy to be part of a first-class organization and competing for a ring. If he went to New York, he'd be stuck behind Carmelo, so I don't see how his playing time would be any different in OKC.

Joe_ 18 pts

Our offense is pretty vanilla. I think it's mostly ball screens and drive and dish. The only two reasons we were top 5 on offense were the lob and our talent. This same offense on the Timberwolves wouldn't go anywhere.

It's all about the talent really.

Grolgar 142 pts

Any way to watch these preseason games online?

Old Man Game 192 pts

Does anyone else ever have this comment system lose their comments? Like I'll show up and post something then refresh and it'll be gone.

Grolgar 142 pts

I think your comment disappeared.

Old Man Game 192 pts

Grolgar Hey I was worried about that. What's the answer to a question in the forest if no one's around to hear it after all.