Home > News > Players reject Stern’s ultimatum deal, want a new meeting

Players reject Stern’s ultimatum deal, want a new meeting

The NBPA and its player reps, as well as just players that wanted to be there, 43 total, met Tuesday in New York for a little more than three hours to discuss a myriad of issues including voting on the NBA’s proposed deal as well as presumably, decertification. Though Billy Hunter said there was “very little” discussion on the latter.

And the message was clear: The deal the NBA proposed is still unacceptable. But it’s not too far off and could be something the players could work with if they got another bargaining session.

Billy Hunter put it bluntly: “They’re still of the mind-set that they’re not going to accept a bad deal.”

The Thunder were represented by Russell Westbrook, who is taking this negotiations very seriously I’m sure with a contract extension coming as soon as the lockout ends. Kevin Durant is the Thunder’s official player rep.

There was some presumption that the meeting would include discussion of voting on the current proposal. But Fisher nixed that. “Today wasn’t about voting on the current deal as it stands,” he said.

Hunter said he knows who the hardline owners are and was asked about Michael Jordan’s reported stance.

“I would give him the advice that he gave to Abe Pollin. OK? He should take his own advice,” Hunter said.

What happens at the close of business tomorrow if there’s no meeting? Hunter said he’s hearing from the “underground” and “gossip” that the NBA will cancel games until Christmas without a deal Wednesday. And supposedly, the offer will just get worse too. The players don’t believe that though. Hunter said he still believes the 50-50 will remain on the table past the deadline. We’ll see, I guess.

But a big takeaway from the press conference: Hunter also said that David Stern can expect a calling either Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning to organize a new meeting. And in that, he’s been given authorization from the players to move economically as long as the system can fall into a better place. What does that mean? I have no idea.

The ones Hunter mentioned though: repeater tax, escrow, sign and trade restrictions, “cliff” for teams that go into tax, mid-level for tax payers. Basically five of the six “what-if” proposals made from Saturday’s ultimatum meeting. Find common ground there and you could find a deal.

But it all starts with getting another meeting before 5 p.m. Wednesday. Let’s hope David Stern just got a phone call.

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Keith00 42 pts

I still expect to see games played this year, and a deal to be done soon, but that the stances by both sides are going to change dramatically in the next week. I think the union stands firm right now, saying they'll take 50-50 if there are better terms on the system. But, I think tomorrow Stern publicly states that the owners' offer has dropped to 47%, citing the loss of games, legal expenses, and to put some actual authority behind his words going forward.

In the next week, the union hems and haws about how unfairly they are being treated, they discuss decertification and probably even put it to a vote. Unfortunately, they are shaken by exactly how much they are losing every day (and how the owners offer is only getting worse). Then, in a stroke of "negotiating genius," the players will offer 50-50 split plus all system concessions from this current proposal. Owners take it, open FA the next week, and we start playing games by mid-December.

Jax Raging Bile Duct 135 pts

At first I thought we'd have games by Christmas, and we still might. But then 3 weeks ago I thought the date would be more like Thanksgiving. Now I'm thinking the date will be more like Halloween, 2012.

Old Man Game 192 pts

Geez, what more is there to say. At some point sanity has to intercede in this clusterfuck. Right? This is like saying If I don't get as many slices of the pizza I want I'll throw the whole thing in the garbage.

Steve H 30 pts

Amazing degree of idiocy from the union. They are clearly, obviously, accomplishing nothing but more and more lost revenue for the players they represent. Amazing that the lemming like idiots that play basketball for a living are standing united behind the union while their leadership burns giant piles of their money and robs them of a year from their careers. Worst of all are the owners who could not accept the significant salary and system concessions and allow their booming sport to continue flourishing. Instead, in their astounding arrogance, they have held out for a humiliating victory over their players- who WILL hold a grudge against ownership whenever this ultimately is resolved, and taken a giant shit on their paying fan base with the smug certainty that we will continue to support the NBA in sufficient numbers that a few points difference in BRI will off-set the fans lost as a result of their choice to kill a season. Cue CeeLo Green.

osanowhoa 53 pts

Steve H Players can't be principled about what they deserve for the value they bring to the league? The only explanation is that they're idiot lemmings who don't understand the situation?

JimboSlice 198 pts

osanowhoaSteve H honestly i think the move to 50/50 but not accepting the proposal was the smartest bargaining move they had available. The issue all along hasnt been solely the BRI, but the BRI split combined with the loss of job opportunities through the other system cuts. They obviously will not get the BRI they want, no matter how you cut it. At least this gives them a shot to get a less terrible shake on mid-level exceptions, luxury tax signings, and the other things thata, if limited, could really take a hit on the longevity of players who aren't superstars' careers.

Steve H 30 pts

osanowhoa There is no reasonable end game for the players at this point. They are literally holding out for what will almost certainly be a worse deal. Yes, I think that is stupid. What is the principle they are fighting for? Owners are offering us a crap deal, so we insist that we should lose an entire years salary, come back with considerably less unity and resolve a year from now when we will accept an even crappier deal than the one currently being offered. You can call that a principled stand if you like- it looks like idiocy to me.

osanowhoa 53 pts

Steve H Principled stands are usually made in the face of common sense. Just because they're making an decision that isn't wise that doesn't mean that they're ignorant of the situation.

Steve H 30 pts

osanowhoa We are talking about a business/$/contract negotiation. Kids will not be harmed, the environment will not be endangered, kittens will not be drowned regardless of the outcome. What "principle" is it that they are defending- that they "deserve" more than what is being offered? How will getting LESS than that offer defend that principle? I think we will just have to disagree on this one.

JimboSlice 198 pts

Steve Hosanowhoa I don't think it's totally a stand on principle, but I believe what osanowhoa would be referring to would be the principle of standing against the "I have more money than you, and therefore can make you do what I want" train of thought exercised by the owner.

They also are likely looking at the impact on future CBA's as well. By easily folding to a radical remodeling to the system, they would set a precedent for that to be done in the future as well.

sammasaaron 60 pts

Steve H I don't think it's necessarily "idiocy" from the union. Seems pretty clear to me they are undaunted by Stern's latest ultimatum and think there's still bargaining to be done. Why take a bad deal when you believe you're close to getting a deal you like better? Furthermore, by hinting that they are willing to take a 50/50 deal with adjustments to system issues and want to get back to negotiating, they are putting pressure on the owners. This isn't the first time Stern has insisted that the owners' proposal would get worse and the threat hasn't materialized yet. Seems like a pretty savvy play by the union to me.

Daniel Hawaii 208 pts

These next 24 hours are going to be very interesting. Now that both sides are at 50-50, let's see if the owners give a little on the system issues. But if nothing happens between now and 5pm EST tomorrow, I think Stern's threat of going down to 47% will hold true and we can kiss the season goodbye.

PNT 53 pts

If I was a Thunder player, I might be a little miffed at Durant for being willing to play at every pick up game he is invited to, but not to show up at union meetings (especially today) when he is the teams' official rep.

bensbs 5 pts

This whole guaranteed BRI thing doesn't make any sense. Name one other industry this happens in. It is like saying to Apple, you are guaranteed 50% of the tablet market regardless of what you produce. It should be a free market, with a hard cap. Players would be paid what they are worth, as opposed to the current situation where stars are underpaid and role players are overpaid. The players will get their 52% if it is done this way, and it will improve competitive balance. There is no way the Miami heat would have happened if there were no max contracts, someone would have offered wade ~30 lebron ~40 and bosh would be getting ~20.

You need to let the market take care of itself..

OBCD.epidemic 5 pts

bensbs A hard cap is inherently not a free market. That's if you buy into all this free market stuff in the first place. Which you shouldn't especially with regard to the NBA which requires antitrust exemptions to operate in the first place, hence why the Players Union exists in the first place and why decertification carries any real legal threat. What you're essentially asking the players to do is not only give up their potential value in a true free market but, in addition, ask for nothing in return.

JimboSlice 198 pts

OBCD.epidemicbensbs very well put. in order for it to be a free market. the salary cap would have to be done away with all together. There's really no perfect balance out there in a business where business is done in bidding fashion by bidders who have vastly varying amounts of knowledge about the product they are bidding on, as well as enough money to bid basically whatever they wish on the products.

OBCD.epidemic 5 pts

JimboSlicebensbs Yep, a true free market in the NBA would probably look something like a cross between MLB and the Harlem Globetrotters with four or so super teams in huge markets taking up all the superstars, and everyone else out in the cold. You wouldn't even have the luxury that baseball has of a few underdog teams still being able to succeed through better understanding of advanced stats because basketball involves so many fewer players per team and has so many fewer all star level talents.

OBCD.epidemic 5 pts

JimboSlicebensbs In other words, it wouldn't be very entertaining.

f5alcon 273 pts

if there is no season i can get used to no basketball again, i did for the first half of the decade before we had thunder on the horizon.

NathanHurley 46 pts

wow i sure hope stern was bluffing, if not i dont see us getting a season. I see nothing but money symbols in player and owners eyes. No matter how much they try to mask it with oh we wanna play, its all about the bens man. I hate to say this but, im starting to not care anymore :( . I as a fan just want to see my thunder go the distance cause i know how hungry they are. Looks like that might not happen this year. I hope im wrong.

Steve H 30 pts

If Stern and Hunter can't come to terms on an offer the leadership is willing to recommend to the players by tomorrow, I think the season is dead. Once the deadline goes by, I would bet my house that the owners follow through with their 47%/flex cap threat, and it will all have gone too far by then for the players to back down and take a significantly worse offer. Guess I'll know by 5:00 if I am ever going to be buying Thunder tickets again. If they blow up this season I will still be a fan, and I will still watch every Thunder game on TV, but they will have gotten their last dime out of me.