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It would be better to not bring this topic, or conversation to this board. Both sides are too danm ignorant, and narrow sided. You can only really do one of two things talking about this, piss people from Seattle off, or piss people from OKC off. Honestly i know we're all grownups but even at our age not everyone is as open to understand both sides as we think.

I understand both sides. As the Bennett/Stern side is true, once you buy something you pretty much have every danm right in the law to do with it as you please, but at least don't do it under false attentions. That being said, i thank Bennett for getting us a team because we deserve one, at the same time Bennett, Stern ect went like little girls about things which ended up blowing things way out of there. Shultz knew Bennett had every intention to move the team, so did Stern. So did many of the Seattle folk. So yes, was Bennet, Shultz, and Stern being little female dogs about things yes, but much of Seattle(even though they knew what would happened) did try to act like they didn't which kinda makes them seem foolish. No offense to my buddies from Seattle but its true. All that Sonicgate crap at our games is nothing but disrespect to even the players.

Seattle deserves another team, but honestly for my folks here in OKC, Key Arena is just a bigger version of our Cox Convention Center. I've been to the Key, and thats the closest comparison i can think of. Of course Key Arena is way bigger.

Just like JVG said, Seattle Deserves An NBA Team, but they need an NBA Arena first.

As for the hate, out of being bias, and a homer. Seattle trolls don't get under my skin but i really do hate them. What makes alot of them think Seattle is better then OKC? because of a space needle and more sky scrappers. I lived in Seattle for a few months YEARS ago, and use to live in New York, and Mexico City. Both alot bigger then Seattle, and personally i take living in OKC over living any of those and San Antonio too. Like i said no offense to the people on here from Seattle or with connections with Seattle (Crow, Sammy, Justin) you guys are some of the brightest people about this sport that i have ever met.

@needbig

I've been watching KP play since he entered the league, i'm young but i've been watching basketball since as far as i rmember and actually know the sport because my grandfather was a basketball coach back in mexico. I'm as big as critic as you get especially against someeone like KP, Russel, and Thabo 3 players i admire alot. You think the few problems you believe to be there from watching the team in the playoffs are enough to give an assumption? I've been watching Russ since he was at UCLA, I use to watch clips of Ibaka when he played in Spain, If those are problems they certainly not the teams biggest problems. Would Russel excel being a 2guard no one on this board really knows because having Russel means we need to have a SG who can actually shoot. Unless you expect Russ taking a 3 point shot? I much rather have Russ at the point and Harden take that shot.

@Halfpint

I here you bro, I just wanted to find out for myself why all the hate for Bennett. At the end of the day "It's all about the Benjamins". I think the move was successful and hopefully one day, the great city of Seattle can have their team and history back!

Most Sonics fans expected that they would lose the team when Bennett bought it or at least thought the odds were very high it would happen. Playing the last season especially attendance dropped based on that expectation and the coincidental decision to shed the teams former stars and rebuild for the future, a future elsewhere.

Those who followed it the closest thought there might be some possibility that an acceptable arena solution could be found, for there to be some sort of quid pro quo for Seattle to keep the team and for Bennett to get an expansion team or the Hornets or for Seattle to get a promise or even just strong consideration for the next team that became available but after awhile it became pretty clear that David Stern was personally pissed at Seattle and Washington politicians for not giving the Sonics a great new deal when he said "jump" in person, not much after they had done so just 10-12 years before completely rebuilding Key Arena exactly the way the then owner wanted it (small to prevent hockey, "intimate" instead of dominated by sky boxes).

If Schultz & Stern had just asked for a typical good deal from the politicians earlier (before the economy tanked) maybe they could have gotten it. But they wanted a very very good deal for them (in terms of a small % contribution by the owner for construction of a new or vastly upgraded arena), far better than the NBA average and far better than the Seahawks and Mariners got. Schultz and Stern may have not only felt their sport was getting slighted, they may have felt they were getting slighted based on their personal background. The both had massive egos that far surpassed their personal tact and the quality of their staff work.

I won't revisit all the detail of what Bennett and Stern did and did not do and what they meant and didn't but in the end Seattle became probably the last opportunity for Stern to stick it real hard to a city as a shot he wanted other cities to remember and then acquiesce to what he wanted from them in the future on arenas. But after the economy tanked, he had to change tactics at least some, at least for awhile. He has used a very different standard and posture with New Orleans, Sacramento and other cities. He has to now. But when the Sonics were in play, he was going for the big score of massive subsidies or plan B he could reward a friend in Bennett who did several things that really helped him with the Hornets and before that with the Spurs.

That is old news. I know 1/3 or more of Sonics fans dislike or hate the Thunder but many just dislike or hate Schultz/ Bennett / Stern and the Seattle & WA politicians.
Many are indifferent to the Thunder but some support them, openly or semi-secretly. The efforts of the loudest and most upset to knock the Thunder doesn't achieve much but they can't stop themselves and others can't either. Someday 5-10 years from now they might get a team back but it will only happen if Stern or his successor want it to, for their own reasons (wanting a billionaire, wanting to market to a pretty rich, pretty big market) not to make amends or admit wrongdoing.

@K-DUB
Everyone down here knew Bennet wanted to move the team to OKC and was watching and hoping the city would refuse to pony up to keep the team there. Either the citizens of Seattle are a dumber breed, have poor memories, or that movie has the integrity of a Michael Moore production and it's proponents the blind faith of a Keynesian economist.

So, those of you in the know, did Stern not like the move??

Thomas :Uh, no. The ownership group led by Bennett paid several hundred million dollars for the franchise. Numerous lawsuits were filed and none of them resulted in a judgment finding the ownership group liable for anything. Face it, this is America. When you buy something you can basically do with it as you please. This is over and done with.

First of all, I don't give a damn either way. Secondly, Clay Bennett told the Seattle fans that he all attentions of keeping the franchise their, but He and Stern already knew what was going to happen once Bennett purchased the team. That's all I'm saying, the fans got shafted and Bennett hooked us up with a great team. Honestly, it is what is and I'm glad the Thunder are here. It's been a home-run for the state of Oklahoma and the NBA. Like you said, Bennett paid for the team honestly but lied about His true intentions to the City and the Fans, that's all I'm saying (we all knew that). The fans are really crushed and I see their frustrations from another persepective. And boy the Thunder's success here in OKC is adding salt to the wound.

That being said, there fans get on my damn nerves and will always troll us to death until they get another team. I have more sympathy now but this topic is old I will admit that. If you had something for 41 years and it is taking away you would be pissed too my friend. Don't get it twisted. This isshh from the Seattle faithful is just getting started. They will never let this go. They hate us because of Clay Bennett. That's just how it is...THUNDERUP!!!

Uh, no. The ownership group led by Bennett paid several hundred million dollars for the franchise. Numerous lawsuits were filed and none of them resulted in a judgment finding the ownership group liable for anything. Face it, this is America. When you buy something you can basically do with it as you please. This is over and done with.

So you've decided that by watching one video from one point of view?

Yo this is way off topic but I decided not to go to the club tonight and chilled instead, so I went to the Sonicsgate website just to check it out. I had been on alot of blogs recently, and everywhere site I encountered bitter Sonics fans were trolling the forums and saying how they were glad the Thunder lost in the WCF and how they hated Clay Bennett...etc...etc.

Anyways, so I decided to check out this 2 hour documentary about the history of the Sonics and the conspiracies that surrounded the franchise leaving town http://sonicsgate.org/movie/. Yo, I was shocked to how Clay Bennett hi-jacked their team and their 41 year franchise history. I was borned and raised in Washington D.C. and moved here this past year. It was easy to be a Thunder fan cuz K.D. is from my town, Jeff Green was from the area, and Eric Maynor is a legend at VCU just an hour away. So I bleed Thunder Blue. All in all, I truly have sympathy for there fans but also since I'm from a big city couldn't even imagine living in OKC without the Thunder being here. I guess Clay Bennett knew that OKC was a great place for the NBA, but damn I feel for those Seattle fans. Even if they do get a new franchise in the future, all of their history has been sold to clay Bennett as well as their championship trophy. Seattle got screwed and will always hate the Thunder so get used to the trolls on all these forums. It will never stop cuz Clay Bennett did them Gangsta! All that being said, THUNDERUP!!!

@needbig
Here is why not watching the whole season affects your judgement, before we had perk, krstic started at center, green started at PF, they combined for 10rpg. perk+ibaka combined for 15.5rpg, that is a big difference. That isnt even mentioning the huge drop in opponents ppg. with almost no dropoff in scoring with harden stepping up.

We were pretty soft before the trade, teams could push us around, they still push durant around and frustrate them, are we a lot rougher now, yes, and sometimes we are over the top, but the playoffs are rough, the mental toughness is what separates teams in the playoffs, the talent level is pretty close.

@Brian
exactly, thats why perk sit for a few weeks. If they didnt think he was ready then they wouldnt of let him play. I cant wait to see him at 100% again.

@needbig
Thats not Perkins fault he is willing to play on one good leg because he has heart.
Its up to the coaching staff to determine when and how much he plays;
They knew he was hurt.

@Brian
*UNBALANCED

@needbig
Sadly, because of how playoffs went Russ is going to be pushed to be traded or moved to different position because of what is perceived as 'defects or ball hogging' by the majority.

Russ is fine as PG.
Line up numbers show that Russ was fine when he played with BALANCED lineups.
Yet they are skewed because he played frequently with the starting unit was very BALANCED.

@needbig
its fine, just dont assume something just cause you say us play a few games. Most of us on here have been watching from the beginning of the year and have seen us change. I believe the trade was a huge success cause it gave our guys some much needed insight into the playoffs.
and us cheerleading? lol you def havent been here long enough to see us go off on our players. Us here at the daily thunder are the most critical of our guys performance lol.

@Brian
Playing hurt does not benefit the team. Did you see Rondo? Shaq?

@dragonbug
Thanks for the tone of your response (which I did not see before mine)

@needbig
Perkins is HURT.
He wasn't loafing
He was struggling to run, jump or move into proper position.
Many fouls were because Perkins could not react quick enough.
Many finishes around the rim (which normally a very good at) he couldn't jump or get into the right position to put the ball in the basket.

@DJ 7
I watched them often enough to know that KD is among the three true franchise players in the NBA (LeBron and Dwight Howard are the others) and that if Westbrook could be move to the 2 spot he would be a perennial allstar, that James Harden has unlimited potential, and that Ibaka is one of the two or three best shot blockers I have seen. I'm just not good at turning blind eyes to problems, like the ones I saw in the playoffs. I see that nobody is interested here in anything but cheerleading, so I will not participate further and ruin the atmosphere. Good luck.

needbig :
Sorry I spoke honestly and did not pretend to have watched every game during the regular season. So, I guess my observations during the playoffs about OKC’s poor approach to the game, including obvious loafing, were no accurate because I did not also see them loafing during the regular season? Or, did they start loafing in the playoffs? Or, is your point is that nothing negative can be said about Perkins on this board. I guest the OKC attitude in the playoffs was great. Great discussion board.

@needbig
lol perk is injured and not even playing at 70% right now man. if you watched the video above then you would see what perk is like at full strength. Plus perk and nazr when they were drafted here brought a new outlook to our guys, veteran experience and attitude. Perk is more important to us than your mild observations give you. Perk didnt match up well with dallas, but if it wasnt for him, Zach randolph would of had his way with us, plus he played Nene in denver very well.

@shiki
Those teams also loaf

Sorry I spoke honestly and did not pretend to have watched every game during the regular season. So, I guess my observations during the playoffs about OKC's poor approach to the game, including obvious loafing, were no accurate because I did not also see them loafing during the regular season? Or, did they start loafing in the playoffs? Or, is your point is that nothing negative can be said about Perkins on this board. I guest the OKC attitude in the playoffs was great. Great discussion board.

@dragonbug
*reading. my bad :P stupid typos.

needbig :
I watched the Thunder only in the playoffs, ...

i stopped ready that comment at that point :P . your opinion, insight, whatever you wanna call it is void because of that comment. toodles.

Jimbo Slice :@needbig

Yeah, you’re.. umm very far off and your opinion has now been rendered null and void.

lol +1!

needbig :
I watched the Thunder only in the playoffs, and rarely in the regular season. Here is my observation: If I were Perkins, I would not be taking credit for the Thunder attitude. I saw him and Ibaka loafing up the court. I saw Westbrook taking stupid technicals attempting to look tough. I saw Ibaka holding and cheap shotting, rather than using his athleticism. When the opposition began to make a run, OKC stopped trusting each other and tried to make super plays.
If this is the attitude adjustment that Perkins brought, then he should be dealt asap.

Well buddy if i were you, i would try to watch the Thunder play an entire regular season, and get to know the team before i make an observation. Welcome aboard some real laid back people here.

In disagreement though, if it weren't for that trade we wouldn't have even gotten past the 1st round. Ibaka is arguably and i think most would agree the best defensive PF in the league now. Westbrook got tech's for letting his emotions get to him. Not only that they were stupid techs the league should rescind unless you really think he deserves a tech for saying "hell na that was a foul", last but not least if it weren't for Perkins, Nene, and Marc Gasol would litteraly torch us. When we made Perk help Ibaka, or put in Ibaka at the 5 in the Memphis series Marc would rape us. It was when Collison/Perk were in together that we got the stops. Not only that but his attitude was exactly what we needed for this team. I don't know about you but i didn't see the Mavs talk crap to our fans, or spike the ball at half court again during the playoffs. Not to mention Chandler was bothered by Perkins mind games.

Even though there were only 10 games, there were a bunch of highlight dunks and posterizations in the conference finals.

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/top_plays/2011/0...

Of course, Kevin Durant did NOT have the number one dunk....

@needbig
Were you talking about T-wolves or Wizard?

@needbig
Yeah, you're.. umm very far off and your opinion has now been rendered null and void.

@needbig
please leave and never come back

I watched the Thunder only in the playoffs, and rarely in the regular season. Here is my observation: If I were Perkins, I would not be taking credit for the Thunder attitude. I saw him and Ibaka loafing up the court. I saw Westbrook taking stupid technicals attempting to look tough. I saw Ibaka holding and cheap shotting, rather than using his athleticism. When the opposition began to make a run, OKC stopped trusting each other and tried to make super plays.

If this is the attitude adjustment that Perkins brought, then he should be dealt asap.

Also, we should bring Tibor Pleiss over for training camp if the lockout doesn't happen/extend that long. I don't know the contract or buyout situation for Pleiss, but we need to see if he can play effectively in the nba.

It seems like everyone wants a veteran who can stay healthy and make an impact. I think a move like that would go against the team's mold of developing young, hungry, athletic players and also be a big risk. If the veteran doesn't pan out we lose the assets we could have kept for another trade, draft, or signing.

justin :
I’m worried that Hill will fall to pieces if he’s taken away from Phoenix’s miracle workers.

Perhaps Hill would be a good test to measure our Medical staff. We have been remarkably healthy the last two years :P.

justin :
I’m worried that Hill will fall to pieces if he’s taken away from Phoenix’s miracle workers.

Same

courtsense :

Mr. Edwards :Hill won’t play for OKC. Neither will Nash.

Why not Hill?

Just because. See?

Mr. Edwards :
Hill won’t play for OKC. Neither will Nash.

Why not Hill? If he wants a chance at a ring, he needs to go to a contender that has a legitimate shot to win it all in the next 2 years. That means Dallas, OKC, San Antonio or the Lakers in the West...and Miami, Chicago, or Boston in the East. The Mavs stand to lose some key guys after this year, so I'm sure Cuban would be all too happy to lure Hill there for a shot next year. I'm sure Popovich would love to have him as well.

Hill won't play for OKC. Neither will Nash.

I think we should trade our 24th overall pick, Nate Robinson and Thabo Sefolosha to Charlotte for their 8th overall pick and Tyrus Thomas. So we can draft Alec Burks 8th overall. If not we should just draft Justin Harper from Richmond

I mean if we were to get Hill do you guys think a big man line up of Westbrook/Hill/Durant/Ibaka/Perkins would actually work? I'm not saying starting hill, i just mean as in if we ever have to play this line up against a team with a tall SG like Joe Johnson who bigger and taller than Harden and Thabo but we don't want to give up scoring.

I mean Hill is lightyears a better scorer than Thabo, and personally i think he's a better defender then Harden.

@justin

I'de like to think our teams doctor does a pretty good job. The guys love him.

Even then though, Grant Hill in my eyes would be the best fit as a back up SF, the thing is, does he think he's worth more then he really is? I mean the man produces alright but he would need to recognize that he's old, and right now in this point of his career a ring is what he's missing. I still think a team like Miami, Knicks, or even the Lakers will sign him if he leaves Phoenix. Can you imagine having Grant Hill even if he takes a step down next season working in the 2nd unit with Maynor. We literally can afford moving Harden to the starting position.

I would instead of drafting players if the team resigned Cook, and got Grant Hill, trade for D.J. White. I feel pretty positive with Aldrich playing back up for Perkins. Even then Brooks plays Ibaka at the 5 for about 10-12 minutes to start with.

Westbrook/Maynor/Ivey
Harden/Thabo/Cook
Durant/Hill/Harden(depending if we go SMALL SMALL
Ibaka/Collison/White
Perkins/Aldrich/Tiber? Mullens?

I mean the only thing we would be missing is a Post Up Scorer. but i think aquiring Hill, and Getting White whose set shot is even better than Ibaka regardless if Ibaka develops it right next year would be enough scoring if needed.

I'm worried that Hill will fall to pieces if he's taken away from Phoenix's miracle workers.

@courtsense
I like it.

@courtsense

Hill, too, seems to be defying his age, but Im not sure how much he'll help. I think he and Kidd could develop into solid coaches if they chose to go into that field

Sam Presti's #1 unrestricted free agent priority right now should be signing Grant Hill, who should be ready to leave Phoenix for a shot or two at a ring before his career winds down. Hill is still a very effective player, and he's a big-game and playoff-tested veteran who can give the Thunder 20 high-quality minutes a night off the bench.

With Harden inevitably moving into the starting lineup, Hill can spell Durant at SF and also play with KD when Brooks goes small and KD moves to PF spot for short stretches against certain matchups. Hill is an extremely intelligent player and an above-average ballhandler and passer who can help spread the floor, facilitate ball movement, create and make shots for himself and teammates, and most importantly make opponents pay for doubling KD, RW, and JH. A 4th quarter/crunch-time lineup of Westbrook, Harden, Hill, Durant, and Collison or Ibaka would be formidable in the playoffs. That lineup may have been enough to beat Dallas this year.

He would also be a superb teammate and great asset in the OKC locker room culture.

DJ 7 :
I just personally think, drafting a real SF/PF in the first round who can score and maybe even run the offense a little along side with Maynor, and another big is all we need. I personally would like D.J. White back since he has a decent post up game, and has more than likely the best set shot from 15 feet. even more than Dirk.

I just think our answer is in free agency rather than in the draft. i dont like this draft at all. Actually, although I only saw him play little, Irving doesnt stick out to me. And I think Williams will be a bust.

@DJ 7
completely agree. we need all 3 of them. i cant wait to see how they have all improved for next year :D . once ibaka gets that jump shot down theres another threat right there, harden starting, another threat, and if perk is healthy, down low threat lol

@dragonbug

Oh i agree, like i said before, i don't see any reason to trade any of our main guys unless they threaten to test the market. More than likely when they say that, it means they are ganna leave. Even then i think the team would handle it the way we handle Jeff Green.

I agree with Sammy, i think the team should go into complete resign Harden, Ibaka, and Westbrook mode. Then we worry about the rest.

I just personally think, drafting a real SF/PF in the first round who can score and maybe even run the offense a little along side with Maynor, and another big is all we need. I personally would like D.J. White back since he has a decent post up game, and has more than likely the best set shot from 15 feet. even more than Dirk.