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Do the Thunder have a Perk problem?

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Russell Westbrook is the big, bold discussion that everyone seems to have an opinion on. Breaking down every decision he makes, critiquing each individual shot and even speculating on his mood is all the rage.

But kind of the indie, underground debate that really is much better and far more impactful and important is about the first five players that Scott Brooks sends out nightly.

It’s something that’s become painfully obvious through the first three games of this series: Kendrick Perkins doesn’t match up well with the Mavericks and more specifically, Tyson Chandler.

He can’t run the floor with him. He can’t jump and challenge him above the rim. Perk’s greatest contribution of solo coverage on a post scoring threat isn’t as valuable against a guy like Chandler. Against Nene? Perk was as important as any player on the roster. Same thing could be said against Marc Gasol.

Now though, he’s become more of a liability. The Thunder have a problem scoring at the start of every first and third quarter. And while last night the biggest culprit was downright awful shooting, there could be a larger issue at hand. The always brilliant John Hollinger makes the case:

In the three games, Oklahoma City has been outscored 39-17 in the opening minutes of the first quarter until a reserve checks into the game. Overall, the deficit to begin each half is 57-31. Take those minutes away and the Thunder are comfortably outscoring Dallas.

To put a finer point on things, let’s replace the word “starters” with “Kendrick Perkins.” In his 82 minutes on the court, the Thunder have been outscored by a whopping 32 points. In his 62 minutes on the bench, the advantage has titled nearly as strong the other way: the Thunder are plus-23.

And those slow starts? They’ve magically ended at the exact second Perkins departed. Oklahoma City trailed by five in Game 1 before he went out, by nine in Game 2, and by 15 in this one — 29 points worth of deficits to make up the rest of the night. The Thunder overcame it in Game 2 by scoring on nine straight possessions right after Perk went to the bench; in the other two games, the hill was too big to climb.

Hollinger makes a great point as well: The Thunder are a much better team in the future with Kendrick Perkins at they’re starting center. Just now right now, in this series. Against the Mavs, Perk simply doesn’t have a place. Dallas doesn’t give Chandler the ball in the post. Basically, Perk’s greatest asset is just tangling himself up with Chandler as much as possible to either goad him into a technical or keep him off the offensive glass. That’s pretty much it.

(Keep in mind though, Perk has admitted he’s not close to 100 percent. He didn’t get to go through a training camp and more than anything, he appears to be a bit out of shape right now. The Perk we get next season will be much different from the Perk that’s lumbering around right now.)

Now Scott Brooks isn’t going to change things. I tried to explain why already. Before last night’s game he was asked about starting lineups and said there won’t be any changes this season, but over the offseason there will be discussion about it. Brooks isn’t dumb. He sees what we’re seeing. He understands the problem at hand. He’s just A) too stubborn to change and B) he doesn’t want to start tinkering in Game 4 of the Western Conference Finals. That’s not his philosophy and that doesn’t fit the message he’s preached at his team the last six months.

But Brooks acknowledged last night that there’s an offensive issue with the starting five because there are really only two scoring options on the floor. The weight falls almost exclusively on to Durant and Westbrook and not just that, but two players are actual offensive liabilities. The Thunder way is defense and that’s what Brooks wants his team to rely on. But good offense beats good defense and the Thabo Sefolosha and Perk aren’t adding anything offensively.

“Kevin and Russell have to really lead us and keep that scoreboard moving with that first unit and they don’t mind. They don’t mind that opportunity,” Brooks said. “Sometimes Russell gets a lot of hits on taking too many shots but he’s with a unit that plays very good defense that allows us to get stops and score in transition and Russell and Kevin have to lead that group in scoring.”

Here’s my issue with that though: Westbrook often talks about how he likes to use the first quarter to really get his teammates involved and distribute. He wants to set up early and then score later. But that doesn’t at all fit with the structure Brooks just laid out. The way Brooks has it, Westbrook needs to be in attack mode from the outset, taking shots alongside KD. That conflicts with Westbrook’s mindset, or at least the one he says he has. That’s a problem. Westbrook really only has two players to set up on the offensive end in KD and Serge Ibaka. Thabo and Perk can score, but they definitely aren’t at all proficient at it.

Brooks was pretty much universally praised for his bold, risky decision to let his bench finish out Game 2. He made a call and he was willing to stick by it. With a chance at the NBA Finals on the line here, he might have to make another difficult, risky call. There’s pretty much no way that he does and I’m not going to go as far to say that it could be the difference in winning this series and losing, but right now, the starting five is holding the Thunder back. The first eight minutes lost Game 3, there’s no denying that.

But if you can sit Russell Westbrook for an entire fourth quarter, why can’t you sit down Kendrick Perkins and Thabo Sefolosha in the first?

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damn I got all of em but no1
Im from thabo-land....

Hell yeah! Got the new issue today - awesome article on Rajon Rondo!

PS: Where are you from?

@pillendreher:
Strange this gravatar thing...
Im your neighbor... Do you read Five Mag?

Sorry you are having trouble.

Not sure what else to do to try to make it work.

I think I tried resetting my password at dailythunder too and having that carry over at gravatar.com due to the reciprocity of the passwords. Not totally sure what worked.

Maybe a brand new account at gravatar first then a brand new account here using a brand new email and new passwords would work but that is a lot of work for an avatar.

Or just forget the avatar pic.

You could tag your comments with a url of a pic if you want folks to see it once, occasionally or have that option by clicking on it.

Nope, I couldn't. Gravatar knows my username, but it doesn't know my email..

Since I can't reset my pw because it doesn't know my email, I can't connect Gravatar to my dailythunder account.

---

I started watching NBA in 2003 - Dirk was a huge topic in Germany. Last year I was still a Dallas Fan, but my primary team is OKC. After the loss against Dallas(when Terry went nuts) I decided to forget about Dallas.

GO THUNDER!!

@pillendreher:
You could login and load a picture on gravatar, right? Then just login/logout here and it should work. If not just make a new account here with the same adress u used with gravatar. Are you german and not a Mavs fan?

See, that's the strange thing. I already tried different email adresses and none of them worked. Furthermore, I tried to reset my password. But I didn't get the mail from Gravatar..

I got a lost-pw mail from dailythunder though.

@Pillendreher

I had problems with gravatar accepting my password too. It was because I had used my email I registered with here to register with another wordpress blog a long time ago and it was still remembering that one. I finally asked to reset the Gravatar password (but it affects both places) and used the process and then I could get in to gravatar.com and load a picture.

If that doesn't work this way, you could try to change your email on this site / wordpress, then try to register with gravatar again with that email & password but you might end up having the same problem & solution is outlined above.

Joe-Nas :@pillendreher

I had a few problem with it but somehow it worked out… Eigentlich könnten wir ja deutsch ‘sprechen’…

OK:D How long did it take you to finally get it going?

I'm so sick of watching the first few minutes of games just hoping we make it to the four minute mark of the first quarter still in the game. Scott Brooks lineup decisions are indefensible at this point.

It's even worse in this series because there is no one in Dallas' starting lineup for Thabo or Perkins to guard...

I've been baffled by his personnel decisions all year and this one is the last straw for me. I know its a pipe dream, but I just want him gone this off season.

For me its come to a point where i'm openly rooting for Perk to pick up a couple quick fouls in the first just so Brooks will be forced to send him to the bench. Perk stayed out of foul trouble early and the result was a 12 point 1st quarter.

It's even worse that Brooks is acknowledging that there is a problem but isn't doing anything about it.

TaoMaas :@justin

I agree about Perk/Serge/Thabo. Two outta three ain’t bad. Once a line-up becomes more defense than offense, you’ve got to expect the kind of scoring problems the Thunder are having in this series. It would be one thing if the Thunder were holding the Mavs down to a point where KD and Russ could keep up with them, but that’s only happening on a hit-and-miss basis.

'In this series'? Try 'in this season'. This has been a problem since the trade, less so in the regular season, but in the playoffs our starters have been outright terrible very consistently.

The starting unit is now nearly -10 points per 100 possessions in the playoffs. It's an absolute joke that Brooks won't make a change. What does he expect is going to happen?

@justin

I agree about Perk/Serge/Thabo. Two outta three ain't bad. Once a line-up becomes more defense than offense, you've got to expect the kind of scoring problems the Thunder are having in this series. It would be one thing if the Thunder were holding the Mavs down to a point where KD and Russ could keep up with them, but that's only happening on a hit-and-miss basis.

lanktj :
Really time for us to admit that the Thunder medical staff missed it on Chandler and the GM missed it on Perkins. Perkins benefitted greatly from being surrounded by 4 future HOF players which masked his weaknesses

I'm not a huge Perkins fan but let's reserve judgement on him until he's healthy, especially if you're going to claim Thunder's medical staff missed it on Chandler when his last two seasons were injury riddled and unimpressive.

Perkins is not the problem with the starting unit, the problem is Perkins-Ibaka-Thabo. We've known this for a long time. None of this is news. The fact that Brooks won't make changes isn't news either.

Perkins is an offensive liability and he looks whipped out there right now. His defense isn't as good against Chandler as it was with Gasol and Nene, and we should starting NC and SI in this series, IMO. Put Ibaka on Chandler and NC on Dirk. Wouldn't have to worry about the Techs either.

@pillendreher
I had a few problem with it but somehow it worked out... Eigentlich könnten wir ja deutsch 'sprechen'...

Chandler gets much help from Dirk who is the best scorer and Kidd who has the best brain in this league.He cannot get these in OKC.

Crow :@Pillendreher

use the e-mail address you registered with for this site at gravatar.com and the picture you load there will appear here when you sign in here.

Mhh..I tried but I can't log in. Gravatar as well as Wordpress itself don't accept my password, even though it's the right one.

@Lanktj
The two things that so many people seem to forget in the Chandler talk is how bad he was in the time between when the trade was rescinded and this season, and that, had the trade gone through, the roster wouldn't look anything like it does now.

Yes, Thabo doesn't need to start, but when the Thunder picked him up, weren't they starting Kyle Weaver? When they signed Maynor, Mike Wilks was our only healthy backup PG. I mean, look at how much of this roster has changed since the trade was rescinded. Even with Perk's matchup problems against Chandler, would Krstic do better? And that's not even considering Green's nightly matchup problems.

Yes, the Mavs may win this series. But had we kept Chandler, I think we'd all be talking draft right.

Fan curses at Joakim Noah (or any player) no problem. Joakim Noah curses back at fan (actually uses gay slur) and problem. Where does it say on your ticket that it entitles you to be an asshole? I know those people are paying a lot for those seats but isn't there some sort of limit to what should be allowed? Certainly there are people who could afford them that wouldn't feel the need to curse out players.

Why the heck is the Perkins trade a bad one afterall? He just doesn't match well with Chandler! You shouldn't judge the effetc of a trade just on 3 PO games.

Wow, you'd think James Harden was the only guy to ever sell a call if you were listening to Mike and Mike this morning. Where you guys been. Players in the league do this all the time. It's no worse then Dirk shoving Russ earlier in the game where the ref couldn't see but of course Russ' push back draws the technical.

@lanktj

Sorry...not gonna admit that at ALL. Chandler was a risk who wouldn't have paid off until this year. Mostly likely we would have dumped him before he got healthy. Perk was a great pick-up for us. This is just a bad match-up for him.

Really time for us to admit that the Thunder medical staff missed it on Chandler and the GM missed it on Perkins. Perkins benefitted greatly from being surrounded by 4 future HOF players which masked his weaknesses

It all just comes down to matchups and we aren't playing them effectively. This team looks really disorganized on offense and that is on the coaching. I wonder if there is a stat somewhere that has our points per possession when we get into a set early compared to when we get into one late/don't really run one at all

KD forced his shots but being the premier player he is he still got us points, and did work elsewhere. It wasn't that our players dissapeared,We started off slow because the offense in our starting unit really is "KD high post, if not Russel make a play", and when we try to give Thabo, KP, or Ibaka the ball they can't do much because until the trade those were players who were asked to do nothing more than play defense, Its kinda hard to ask Ibaka to all of a sudden give us 15 points a game like Jeff did but also get us 10 rebounds and play defense the way he does in half a season. We need better offensive plays and need Collison/Harden to check in faster then usual. From what Crows told me, a Collison/Ibaka(Perkins front court isn't nearly as bad as it is having a Ibaka/Perkins front court in this series.

"Scott Brooks made two declarations Sunday.

He will not change his starting lineup.

And he will not slash starting center Kendrick Perkins' minutes."

http://newsok.com/mayberry-its-time-to-reduce-kendrick-perkins-minutes/article/3570478?custom_click=pod_lead_sports

*sigh*

@Thunderkid89

Craigslist is my favorite place to get tickets.

@Jimbo Slice

Yea Brooks has a "bi-polar" coaching style! He don't know what the heck is doing if you ask me!

@K-DUB

There is no doubt that RW is more fearless but i imagine it hurts much more to tall from 7 feet off the ground than 6'3" Plus Kevin has no muscle, or fat, to protect his bones. When he dunked on Haywood, it looked like it hurt when he came down. Im sure that effects his aggressiveness.

Where is the best place to get 2-3 tickets for Game6?

@K-DUB
I don't think KD can fairly be called "soft" in any sense.

@K-DUB
The only person who outrebounded KD was Chandler and he shot 11 free throws so clearly he wasn't avoiding contact. He had a couple open threes that rimmed out so his number look down. Knock down 2 of those and he has 30 with 12 rebounds which is a great game..

@K-DUB
I won't go as far as him being arguably the best player of the playoffs for us but everything else is pretty on point. Jrue Holiday plus ANYTHING the sixers have to offer for Russ is ridiculous. They could give us their draft picks for the next 20 years and I'd still probably turn it down.

But on the issue of Brooks, I think the most crushing thing for me about last night's game, even more than the fact that we were utterly horrible, was that one game after arguably Brooks' best coached game of his career, we're out there not running ANY offensive sets, starting blown sets with 7 seconds on the shot clock, and playing horrible lineups all over again. I thought he had grown, but just as soon as he showed signs, he regressed back to square one. Completely blew my high.

@K-DUB
Yeah, I sort of took that at face value before looking at the stats. Holiday had some pretty good games to close the year so it seemed plausible but yeah, in light of the numbers that would be horrendous for us. My bad.

@Thomas

Let me say this. First of all, I'm a huge Westbrook supporter. I'm going to start off by saying that yes he's had some growing pains, but Coach Brooks is to be at fault. Jrue Holliday??? Are you kidding me? No thanks! You can't take away Krystic and Green and give a young point guard Perkins, Serge, and Thabo and think he is going to play like John Stockton.

Truth is, the combination of a lack of an offensive scheme from Brooks and terrible lineups have made Russ look for his on shots more since the trade. Durant is not aggressive enough to get the ball and when he starts bad, tends to have a bad game. He did the same thing in Memphis. Russ has arguably been the best player for the Thunder and now that Brooks coaching is being exposed Westbrook is the scapegoat!!!

I believe in Russ and he was the only one who showed up in game 3. Durant was a no-show. KD is showing signs of being soft to me, yea even after dunking on Haywood. Great players find other ways to get going when the jumpers are not falling. At least Russ knows how to attack the rim and not settle for jumpers like KD.

@David
Ha! Lesson learned.

Don't read the Bleacher Report. Anyone with an internet connection and a keyboard can write something. It's nothing but people whining or making claims with no sources or research. It is garbage.

In general, I'd avoid BR or you'll find stuff like this http://bleacherreport.com/articles/701540-russell-westbrook-the-future-superstar-of-the-minnesota-timberwolves

@Thomas
Wait, nevermind. The stats cube reveals that would be a bad move.
http://www.nba.com/statscube/player-vs-player.html#Jrue-Holiday-vs-Russell-Westbrook|201950,201566;season=r

Hey while checking out that link K-Dub posted I noticed they also were talking Westbrook trade options.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/708944-nba-trade-rumors-5-moves-that-could-save-the-oklahoma-city-thunder/page/4

Jrue Holiday is intriguing. I'm sure we wouldn't pull the trigger on that deal but he is more of a passer than Russell. I wonder what Jrue, KD and Harden could do out there with Serge and Perk?

@K-DUB
I don't know man, that seems a little thin. The guy is chastising Brooks for not using Nate Robinson more.

james1 :
That article sucks K-Dub. Coach Brooks and his staff have done a great job with what we’ve got. We’re just young.

It has some points - KDs lack of movement, no solid screen setter, but what it does not mention is the adjustments we made from game one to two, were nothing shy of profound. We made serious adjustments after game one agianst Memphis as well.

Damn, we are so freaking young. I know it, have known it, but when it sets in, its astounding that we are here

On the draft, I would think it would be possible to move up as high as 15 if you really wanted someone and offered enough. I would think Faried should go before that but if he doesn't I'd look to see if you could trade into 15-17.

I am surprised Justin Harper isn't ranked higher. He would seem like a guy worth a close look. Vucevic seems ranked too low right now. Reggie Jackson sounds pretty good, as does Charles Jenkins, if there is any way they decide to take a guard.

@K-DUB

Hes got flaws to be sure, my heart has been breaking all season, especially since the trade, that Harden doesn't start - no argument can convince me otherwise - but Nate is a huge defensive liability. Entering him now would be a mistake. Perhaps if he sticks around next year.

Also, what im not overly impressed with are these statistics of how players perform with others. the variables that they do not account for is when Harden comes in the, what the score is. One of teh most conspicuous dynamics, unfortunately, is Options 1 and 2, KD and Russ are forcing stuff because we are down by a dozen. This is a completely different dynamic then starting together.

Yes, Ive been annoyed with Perk. Like Hollinger, and others, I believe his value is seriously hindered in this series. Hopefully its due to his not being a 100% and hell bounce back next year. This is the one series where I think Ibaka would, does, play better at the 5 and Id liek to see more. Also, Id like to see more of Nazr.

That article sucks K-Dub. Coach Brooks and his staff have done a great job with what we've got. We're just young.

Trackbacks

  1. [...] DAILY THUNDER: It’s something that’s become painfully obvious through the first three games of this series: Kendrick Perkins doesn’t match up well with the Mavericks and more specifically, Tyson Chandler.  He can’t run the floor with him. He can’t jump and challenge him above the rim. Perk’s greatest contribution of solo coverage on a post scoring threat isn’t as valuable against a guy like Chandler. Against Nene? Perk was as important as any player on the roster. Same thing could be said against Marc Gasol.  Now though, he’s become more of a liability. The Thunder have a problem scoring at the start of every first and third quarter……………………….The Thunder are a much better team in the future with Kendrick Perkins at they’re starting center. Just now right now, in this series. Against the Mavs, Perk simply doesn’t have a place. Dallas doesn’t give Chandler the ball in the post. Basically, Perk’s greatest asset is just tangling himself up with Chandler as much as possible to either goad him into a technical or keep him off the offensive glass. That’s pretty much it. [...]