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Friday Bolts – 1.7.11

Hickory High looks at Nick Collison’s impact since he returned from injury: “Since Collison returned from injury the Thunder have gone 18 – 9. If you’re keeping track at home the Thunder’s winning percentage went from 0.556 without him to 0.667 when Collison rejoined the team. He’s not solely responsible for that improvement but as I asserted before, he’s a big part of it. In November, after nine games, the Thunder had an ORtg. of 104.8 and a DRtg. of 107.7. In the 27 games since Collison returned the team has posted an ORtg. of 107.0 and a DRtg. of 103.4. This has brought their season ratings to 106.1 and 104.0 respectively.”

Berry Tramel is really trying to push this Thunder-Maverick rivalry thing: “No one south of Thackerville considers Thunder-Mavericks an NBA rivalry. But that doesn’t mean those of us on the north side of the Red can’t hope. Big Brother Dallas. Maverick Mark Cuban, one of only two owners to vote against bringing the franchise to Oklahoma City. A ballteam that is a thorn in Thunder flesh. All the ingredients are there, except for Dallas interest.” Hope? Hope for what? This isn’t college football. We don’t HAVE to have a rival, you know.

Darnell Mayberry with a statement I totally agree with: “Please, please, please, Thunder heads. Don’t start with the, ‘We should have gotten Brendan Haywood” routine. You know who you are. His moments, I repeat, moments, tonight might have made you go into a tizzy. The guy is making $42 million over five years! And that’s not counting the $10.5 million team option he has for 2015-16. I’d say that’s pretty good coin to average 3.9 points and 5.0 rebounds. My money is on Haywood never averaging seven points and seven rebounds in 65-plus games in a season for the life of his current contract.”

Russell Westbrook has some player edition Hyperfuses out. Look pretty cool.

A story on how KD is accustomed to moving. And he’s also accustomed to being asked about moving.

ESPN Dallas: “Play of the game: The 6-foot-9 Durant used his long right arm to strip Terry just above the 3-point arc, took a handful of long strides and threw down an uncontested tomahawk dunk to stretch the Thunder’s lead to 11 with 5:41 to go. A 6-foot-1 guard simply can’t let that happen, especially considering Terry was just trying to initiate the offense.”

I like how Kevin Love is now being “tied” to Oklahoma City. I sure hope that happens though.

ESPN.com asked who is most likely to come out of the West. Two picked OKC. One was Chris Sheridan: “The easy pick here is San Antonio. The second-easiest pick is Dallas. And the pick I’m going to make is Oklahoma City because the Thunder gave the Lakers a tougher time than anyone except the Boston Celtics last spring, and they are the team in the best position in the West to make a substantial upgrade at a low cost before the trade deadline by offering a No. 1 pick the Clippers owe them (top-10 protected through 2015, unprotected in 2016) along with Mo Peterson’s expiring contract for an experienced player who would be a better No. 3 offensive option for them than what they currently have.”

Art Garcia looks at the dunk contest: “An actual dunk contest winner, the 21-year-old also falls in the category of big man with big dunks. Ibaka won a competition a couple of years ago in Spain, so he’s no stranger to judges breaking down his skills. He lobbied the league for inclusion after witnessing the event live in Dallas last year. Wish granted. Ibaka’s dunks, so far, have been mostly of the alley-oop variety. His natural athleticism and above-average hands have made Ibaka a favorite of Russell Westbrook. Ibaka is also able to use his mighty wingspan to just dunk over people when others would have no reason even attempting to dunk. He reportedly can dunk from the foul line. We’ll see.”

Kelly Dwyer, Behind the Box Score: “We’ve been picking apart the Thunder all year, but this is still a team with a rock solid nine-man rotation, and the team is on pace for 54 wins this year (after 50 last season) despite no major (or minor) personnel upgrades over the offseason. This would be good. Keep on, kids.”

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http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=...

Resulting in a starting lineup of:

Westbrook
Thabo/Harden
Durant
Love
McGee

To bad Cook turned out to be a Dud. Otherwise we wouldnt have to have this Sef-Harden Talk

I know it is probably crazy, but can you imagine a starting line up of Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Ibaka, Love?

@shiki=4 seasons
If our offensive system wasn't so terrible, this would not be an issue. I think the hope is that Harden would continue to be assertive in the starting lineup and make everyone better with his shooting and all-around skills. Further, even if he plays as a role player, at least the opponents need to defend him. Teams consistently roll defenders off Thabo toward Russ and KD. They couldn't do that with Harden, even if he isn't used often. He's too much of a scoring threat to leave open.

Harden played as a role player when he played with our starters.He can play better than Thabo if Brooks asks him to do everything Thabo is doing now.But I dont think it is the best way to use him.It limits his talent.
When he played with our backups,he is their core.And we need him to play like a star to lead our backups.Thabo cannot do it

@Keith
I got you. Point taken.

@Jon
We were all over Harden early in the year when he was playing terribly. Now we want him to start over Thabo, who has regressed. There are people here who haven't liked Krstic ever and we are more than ready to point out that Ibaka is still pretty raw. And we aren't happy when Westbrook tries to shoot us out of the game, but at least he does other things (rebounds, assists, fta). Also, I harp on him for his matador defense most every game.

Green is just the biggest hot button because we all know he could be better. We know he plays well as a SF. We know he could dominate backups. But we also see an unwavering loyalty to him (from the coach) that is so very unjustified from an objective outlook. Don't get us wrong, we'll criticize anyone who throws in a stinker. But, we have better players than Green at his very position (same reason Thabo-Harden debates continue). It's difficult to get over failures when we see nothing changing and an obvious solution right on the roster.

You don't always have to hold back scorers for the bench. There are ways to work your rotations so that you always have at least two scorers on the floor.

So it's looking like from the posts Jeff Green is the problem. Coming off a 50 win season and tough first round loss in which he started just about every game last year. It's kind of funny that he is the only person to be harped on. I guess as long as you put up good numbers your mistakes get overlooked westbrook was 5-16 with 4 to all careless. I'm not on nobodies side I'm just trying to get everybody to look at the team as a whole and not just point out certain things and sweep other stuff under the rug of other things.

@dream catcher
As for who scores from the bench, I have an idea: Green and Durant. Durant plays 40 minutes a night, so he's playing a good deal with the second unit. Green shouldn't be starting in the first place. And it's not like Maynor is some idiot child, the guy can shoot when open. Why are you even worried about where scoring comes from the bench when A) the bench doesn't play nearly as much and B) the starters play all the important minutes. If we weren't playing ourselves into holes with the starting lineup, the backups wouldn't need to score as much.

Sas :http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT8.HTM In clutch situations, defined as “4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points,” Green is .500 from 3. Interesting.

Very Interesting fact

@dream catcher
Well firstly, Thabo's defense is nowhere near as good as you are making it out to be. Second, our defensive deficiency doesn't come from Westbrook-Durant, though admittedly Westbrook doesn't defend well, it comes from the frontcourt - which Thabo can't appreciably help. You're making leaps between offense and defense that don't really connect. Just because Kevin and Russ are good scorers doesn't mean giving them a better option on offense doesn't help (especially seeing as how our offense has a bad habit of falling apart with the starters in).

justin :
You don’t maximize the value of your cruddy players like Thabo, you maximize the value of your good players like Harden. Westbrook-Thabo is one of the worst shooting backcourts in the league, if not the worst.

lol, if you think Westbrook and Thabo is bad, You'd cringe if you saw Maynor and Thabo together for any length of time.

There is a reason the Thunder has NEVER played Maynor and Thabo together without Harden.

Keith :@dream
catcher
Actually, I’d say the top lineup you showed ISN’T balanced. Westbrook and Thabo are non-shooters. Pairing them makes both easier to defend. Maynor and Harden likewise are pretty good shooters, both of which could play better off a slasher (Maynor initiates better from the perimeter, Harden shoots better when others draw defensive attention). If anything, the significantly better pairs are Westbrook-Harden and Maynor-Thabo.

how is it not balanced? our 2 best offensive players are Westbrook and Durant. Sefolosha compliments them extremely well, as he is the best defender of the 3.

Putting Harden in with the starters makes our lineup more unbalanced. Who would score on the bench?

@Greg
yeah green is horribly inconsistent, which would be ok if he came off the bench and on bad nights sat more, but brooks gives him 40+ no matter what

Again, CONSISTENCY should really be taken into account when comparing the likes of Love and Green. They couldn't be further apart on this spectrum.

Patrick James :@James

I doubt it helps scoring much. He gets waayyyy more touches in Minny than he would get here. I think it would be a slight downgrade defensively for a big upgrade in rebounding, but I don’t think that moves OKC from a second round-ish team to a Finals contender. Green is a more versatile offensive player than Love when Green is playing well. I think continued maturation from our current roster is more likely to lead to that kind of leap.

Here's the problem: Green plays at his "best" about 5 times out 10, whereas Love brings it night in and night out. I don't see AT ALL how Green is a more "versatile" offensive player than Love. Love has a consistent jump shot, something Green knows nothing of. Love's 3PT percentage: 43% (111 3PA), Green's 3PT percentage: 26% (114 3PA) - this one isn't even close. We all know Love is the far superior rebounder, just think what he could do to our fast-break game with his outlet passes. Green is nowhere near the player Love is, and Love is a far better fit for this team and what it needs.

@Numbersguy
Here's the issue. If you are going to say don't judge him on his failures, then you can't judge him only on his successes (and certainly not on things that DID NOT HAPPEN). Everyone here wants him to succeed. If he succeeds, the team gets a lot better, and that's all everyone wants. But waiting on that to happen is akin to insanity. We've seen him for almost 4 years. Look at his career averages: that mystical "in between" you mentioned - inefficient, poor passer, terrible rebounder, abysmal defender.

I'm all for playing JG the right way. He should be backing up KD and Serge for 25-30 minutes. But's let's also be realistic. Green is in a contract year, he's been a high minute starter his whole career, and his coach inexplicably loves him too much. There IS a right way for Green to play and help the team, but it is NEVER going to happen in the context of our current team. No one wants to trade Green because he has no value to anyone, they want to trade him because he will never be played in a way that truly benefits the team.

@AD
probably gonna cost more than green to get love, probably westbrook, assuming thats not on the table

green+ibaka+harden+picks might do it.

You don't maximize the value of your cruddy players like Thabo, you maximize the value of your good players like Harden. Westbrook-Thabo is one of the worst shooting backcourts in the league, if not the worst.

@kfmsooner

Keystone > Natty ... although thankfully I don't dabble in either anymore now that I've been out of college awhile.

The Landry idea is intriguing. One problem could be that, with the way Brooks has set his rotations, Green is used as KD's primary backup. And I like Green in that role a lot better than Landry, and there's no obvious replacement without going small whenever KD is taking a breather.

If Presti can get Green signed to a reasonable contract, and Aldrich and/or Mullens develops and Ibaka continues to develop, I think Green still has a long-term place on this team as a sixth or seventh man.

@dream catcher
Actually, I'd say the top lineup you showed ISN'T balanced. Westbrook and Thabo are non-shooters. Pairing them makes both easier to defend. Maynor and Harden likewise are pretty good shooters, both of which could play better off a slasher (Maynor initiates better from the perimeter, Harden shoots better when others draw defensive attention). If anything, the significantly better pairs are Westbrook-Harden and Maynor-Thabo.

@kfmsooner
"and JG really did not play all that well to make a statement like that. The main thing he did well was not chuck up 17-24 foot jumpers. He was still 7-17 for only 16 points in 37 minutes. So…16 points on 17 shots is his ‘best’? If it is, ship him out immediately. Too many JG apologists for my tastes…"
No, his best is 37 points and clutch shooting to win a three overtime game. His worst is 40+ minutes with 0 boards. Somewhere in between these two extremes is the real Jeff Green. A couple of his "shots" last night were tip in attempts at the rim when he was battling on the offensive glass. If he hits those he scores at least 20 with 10+ rebounds. Whether you like him or not instead of constantly ragging on him we should be rooting for his success. If he stays with the team and ups his play then OKC wins. If he plays better and Presti decides to deal him then he ups his trade value. Remember, JG for Ray Allen? If he's going to go, don't we want to maximize what we would get in return? We should all get on the "Play JG right" bandwagon.

Are Love and Westbrook tight, being former UCLA teammates?

If so, wouldnt acquiring Love increase the odds for signing and keeping RW (as well as Love himself) long term. Isnt this the "Green Doctrine"?

Irony being that it'd probably take trading Green to acquire Love.

@dream catcher
looking at the players thabo guarded they have scored vs season average, he isnt shutting down opposing SGs
terry +4
allen +13
manu -9
johnson -2
outlaw +2
butler +6
affalo -10
fields +4
jackson +2
dudley -7
udrih +7

So in the past 10 games only 4 games has he held the opposing sg to below their season average

@dream catcher
I think 'by a long shot' describes Thabo's defense last year, not this year. Not sure what is up with him, but he has not been the shut down defender he has been in the past. Harden has closed the gap defensively.

Westbrook/Sefolosha/Durant
Maynor/Harden

is better than

Westbrook/Harden/Durant
Maynor/Sefolosha

the top group is much more balanced.

kfmsooner :
I’ve always balked at the “Thabo has to start” wisdom. Boston made the finals with Ray Allen starting and Tony Allen coming off the bench.

If Thabo came off the bench, our bench would be Maynor/Sefolosha/Ibaka/Collison. Its much more efficient to have Sefolosha in with Durant and Westbrook than in with Maynor.

Hollinger, on his Insider blog, listed the best benches according to his PER rating...OKC was 11th.

a little clip of a spanish dunk contest that serge ibaka was in. he did pretty well, hopefully a preview of his current skills.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52texkIM4rk&fea...

f5alcon :@dream
catcher
then trade thabo if he has no value off the bench. besides the fact that he can still defend their best wing if harden is struggling to. But just starting him because he cant play off the bench would be like forcing KD back to SG so green can SF. The better player should start and if the other player isnt as good off the bench send them somewhere else and get somebody who is a better bench player. Thabos defense hasnt been great this year

Like i said before Thabo is a good player. He is our best wing defender by a long shot, and our best rebounder on the wing. He has value, just to maximize the value he should start. Besides Harden is doing fine off the bench.

@Sammy
1. I love that Data is your avatar.
2. I think Serge will do well. That video was from a few years ago, and he sized up the guys last year and obviously thought he was better than any of them.

I've always balked at the "Thabo has to start" wisdom. Boston made the finals with Ray Allen starting and Tony Allen coming off the bench.

Patrick James :@kfmsooner
OK, but “ship him out immediately” for who? Who are we getting back and what are we giving up?

Bag of chips and a 6 pack of Natty Light?

Seriously...how about Carl Landry? I think this is a pretty simple deal for Sacto to make, and Landry's numbers are pretty similar to Green's considering that Landry is playing almost 10 minutes per game less.

@dream catcher
then trade thabo if he has no value off the bench. besides the fact that he can still defend their best wing if harden is struggling to. But just starting him because he cant play off the bench would be like forcing KD back to SG so green can SF. The better player should start and if the other player isnt as good off the bench send them somewhere else and get somebody who is a better bench player. Thabos defense hasnt been great this year

@kfmsooner

OK, but "ship him out immediately" for who? Who are we getting back and what are we giving up?

justin :
I still think we need one shooter in the starting lineup long term regardless of what happens with Green. Whether it’s a big man in the Murphy / Okur mold or James Harden, our starting lineup won’t be consistent with teams basically playing defense 18 feet and in against us.

As long as Thabo is on our team I think he needs to stay the starter. Not necessary because I think he is better than Harden(most days he isn't), but his value would be even lower coming off the bench. Not only his but Maynor's who has good chemistry with Harden. Keep Thabo as a starter and if he is locking down the other teams star wing, rebounding, and is in the flow of the game play him a lot. However if he is not doing much defensively, and his impact on the glass is not there as well give Harden more minutes.

Harden is a great talent, but sometimes we forget how good Thabo can be when he is focused, and how good of a defensive rebounder he is.

@dream catcher
this is why we should trade or sign a good defensive center, that way if aldrich gets good we have a great 1-2 punch at center

@justin
That's a good observation too. If only we had a SG in our bench that could hit 40%+ from deep and play pretty good defense...and had a snazzy beard...

@Patrick James
If Ibaka had more minutes next to Collison/Krstic instead of Green, he wouldn't have to foul as much. Last night, he defended Chandler much of the night and it caused him some problems on the glass. Ibaka fouls too much, for sure, but two things would hlep that: Play more PF as opposed to C, and more experience (more playing time).

I'm just so frustrated watching Green play. For example, Patrick James

"Take last night. If Green played his best low-post ball more often…"

and JG really did not play all that well to make a statement like that. The main thing he did well was not chuck up 17-24 foot jumpers. He was still 7-17 for only 16 points in 37 minutes. So...16 points on 17 shots is his 'best'? If it is, ship him out immediately. Too many JG apologists for my tastes...

Serge is gonna be ho-hum in the dunk contest. The video from the Spain contest wasn't very impressive.

dream catcher :anyways good stuff DSMok1. The numbers tell us what the eyes see……..
Nick Collison helps our defense tremendouslyJeff Green is very inefficient offensivelyKevin Durant is terrible defensively, and really good offensivelyNenad Krstic is below average both offensively and defensively.

While I agree that KD is not a defensive juggernuat, I think that to describe him as "terrible" is inaccurate. He routinely makes key defensive plays that contribute heavily to Thunder victories. There is still room for improvement, no doubt.

@Sammy
Disregard the comment about pace. Facts getting in the way of my perceived reality, again.

@DSMok1
yeah, i watched that youtube video the moment we drafted him.. haha.. but nationally, i do think he's under the radar.. but really, i think more people know him than we assume.. for instance, thought it was interesting that Nike put his name in the KD commercial.. and national broadcasters love talking about him and his story.. of course Thunder fans love him.. probably the 4th most popular on the team behind KD, Russ and Nick, just by my guesstimation.. i love that he's in the contest.. will be a great way to get his name out more..

@Jax Raging Bile Duct

I know ... I was close to cutting myself every time he did that last night.

His foul troubles in recent games seem to be on some pretty ticky-tacky loose all calls. Even still, his PF/36 has dropped this season, despite the relatively high pace we're playing at.

I still think we need one shooter in the starting lineup long term regardless of what happens with Green. Whether it's a big man in the Murphy / Okur mold or James Harden, our starting lineup won't be consistent with teams basically playing defense 18 feet and in against us.

f5alcon :@dream
catcher
could give aldrich some mins

I hope he is learning down in the d-league, we need him.

That's why its pretty important Aldrich becomes our center of the future.

With Cole playing solid defense, setting screens, and boxing out you could have a much more balanced lineup.

Westbrook/Maynor
Sefolosha/Harden
Durant
Green/Ibaka
Aldrich/Collison

Aldrich wouldn't be a negative on defense like Krstic is, so Ibaka can play PF exclusively.

TempBoy Brandon :
I’m curious who most of you guys are rooting for in the dunk contest: Serge or Blake Griffin? I love Blake, and I think he’s gonna win it, but I’m definitely still rooting for Serge to take it.

Serge is way under the radar nationally, I think. Does anybody know he won in Spain? Has anyone seen the Youtube of that?