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East Coast bias

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As you may have heard, there are some pretty good teams with pretty good players at the top of the NBA’s Eastern Conference. There are as many or more title-contending teams in the East than the West for the first time in recent memory, and that somehow happened with the biggest free agent who switched conferences, Amare Stoudemire, going to a team that doesn’t rank among the championship favorites.

In no particular order, teams that have the most realistic shot at a title have to be the Lakers, Heat, Celtics, Magic, Bulls, Mavericks and Thunder. Throw in the Spurs if you’re feeling generous. And aside from the Thunder, the contending teams in the West have players on the downward slope of their careers, while only the Celtics seem to be in danger of the window closing soon in the East.

The prospect of Carmelo Anthony and/or Chris Paul heading East at some point would only further tilt the balance. Don’t forget whispers about Deron Williams over the summer either, although there aren’t specific reports of interest in or from East Coast cities as with the other two.

So is the West really weaker than the East, or could it be soon? And does it matter for the Thunder? The idea that the West could suffer a slight power drain could almost be considered optimistic in Oklahoma City. An aging Lakers team bequeathing the top spot to the Thunder, perhaps the only team positioned to take advantage, doesn’t seem a far-fetched daydream.

But if the Thunder benefits from this scenario at all, it most likely won’t happen this season. It might be asking a lot for Oklahoma City to seize even the No. 2 spot in the West, because there are still a number of proud teams with good coaches and good players. The West’s demise may be a bit exaggerated — for now. A Western Conference schedule still features plenty of teams good enough to beat anybody, especially in their own arenas.

So which conference is better, as of now? Top to bottom it’s probably still the West. In an attempt to settle the debate and hopefully start a couple of fights, let’s pair teams from each conference against each other, one by one, and pretend they’re playing a playoff series on a neutral court. For the sake of ranking the conference’s teams and determining the matchups, we’ll use Marc Stein’s bias in the form of his power rankings to guide the selections. Then we’ll use my bias to decide who wins.

1) Los Angeles Lakers vs. Miami Heat

In Season One of the whatever-you-want-to-call-thems in Miami, I don’t think they build the chemistry and figure out how to dole out important shots just yet. Although Kobe’s bum knee scares me one minute … and leaves me thinking the next that he’s just whining and trying to create milk a “warrior” legacy. If you’re healthy enough to play, shut up and play. If you’re not, sit out.

Winner: Lakers. West 1, East 0.

2) Oklahoma City Thunder vs. Boston Celtics

With this year’s Boston team, I hesitate slightly because I don’t  know how the O’Neals are going to figure in. And Kendrick Perkins’ health, and attitude, are unknowns. But there’s still at least one more season where I think the overall championship pedigree and playoff reps of the Celtics edge out the Thunder. They don’t have anyone like Ron Artest who could shut down Kevin Durant the way the Lakers did last season, but the Celtics’ role players have made big plays in May and June and the Thunder’s haven’t. Yet.

Winner: Celtics. West 1, East 1.

3) San Antonio Spurs vs. Orlando Magic

In fairness I don’t think the Spurs are the third-best team in the West. But I think the Magic could beat whoever is. This would be an easier decision if I trusted Dwight Howard more, but I don’t think Tim Duncan can handle someone like him in a long series at this point in his career. I love watching Duncan play, but the Spurs don’t have what it takes to win the title anymore, and it starts with him being older.

Winner: Magic. West 1, East 2.

4) Dallas Mavericks vs. Chicago Bulls

This is a tough decision because we know exactly who the Mavericks are, but we don’t really know what the Bulls are going to be. They were anointed a few paragraphs ago and by legions of others as title contenders, but we still haven’t seen this new team play. That’s why I have to go with what I know. Dirk Nowitzki can still score and score late. The Bulls have a new coaching staff and new players to fit in.

Winner: Mavericks. West 2, East 2.

5) Utah Jazz vs. Milwaukee Bucks

The Jazz have one of the 10 best players in the NBA in Deron Williams. The Bucks don’t have anyone like that. End of story.

Winner: Jazz. West 3, East 2.

6) Portland Trail Blazers vs. Atlanta Hawks

The Hawks just laid down one of the biggest playoff stinkers I can remember and rewarded their best player with a bank-busting contract. The Blazers, uh, didn’t. End of story.

Winner: Blazers. West 4, East 2.

7) Phoenix Suns vs. New York Knicks

Fun! The Needless Apostrophes (Mike D’Antoni and Amare’ Stoudemire … get it, GET IT?!) get to face their old team together before the season even starts in our mythical matchup. But you can’t take the Knicks over last year’s Western Conference runners-up for at least another season in my mind. How good is Stoudemire going to look without Steve Nash? Not as good as whoever the Suns have playing with him this year when they get their wing player logjam sorted out.

Winner: Suns. West 5, East 2.

8) Houston Rockets vs. Philadelphia 76ers

Yao or no Yao, there’s no debate. They made a nice run to the playoffs two years ago, but the 76ers suck until proven otherwise.

Winner: Rockets. West 6, East 2.

9) Denver Nuggets vs. Charlotte Bobcats

You can probably throw this one out the window, because the Bobcats could very well prevail depending on what the Nuggets look like after a Carmelo Anthony trade if one ever materializes. But with Anthony, the Nuggets take this one easily.

Winner: Nuggets. West 7, East 2.

10) New Orleans Hornets vs. Washington Wizards

This is one that could change once the basketballs start bouncing for real — and also if Chris Paul ever really gets traded. If Gilbert Arenas comes back anywhere close to resembling his form of a few seasons ago and John Wall plays like a Rookie of the Year candidate, I could see them knocking off a discombobulated Hornets team adjusting to a new coaching and front office staff. But right now, you’d be crazy to pick the Wizards after last year’s debacle.

Winner: Hornets. West 8, East 2.

11) Memphis Grizzlies vs. Indiana Pacers

The wins are really starting to pile up for the West. Memphis has a group of young players who managed to tread water in a tough Western Conference last year, although they still don’t seem to have an elite star and whiffed with Hasheem Thabeet. But who scares you on the Pacers after Danny Granger?

Winner: Grizzlies. West 9, East 2.

12) Los Angeles Clippers vs. New Jersey Nets

The Clippers have to fight against the whole Clippers thing. The Nets are coming off one of the worst seasons ever. But the Nets, sans-Carmelo, don’t have a roster that stacks up man-for-man with the Clippers right now.

Winner: Clippers. West 10, East 2.

13) Golden State Warriors vs. Detroit Pistons

The Warriors have Stephen Curry but … man, who cares about this one. Extra boring. Let’s just give it to the Pistons to stop the bleeding for the East and give them the benefit of the doubt that somebody could step up and beat their Western counterpart.

Winner: Pistons. West 10, East 3.

14) Sacramento Kings vs. Cleveland Cavaliers

Um … even though I like the Kings here, let’s throw Cleveland a bone, shall we? We like us some Byron Scott in Oklahoma City.

Winner: Cavs. West 10, East 4.

15) Minnesota Timberwolves vs. Toronto Raptors

How can you really go with the team that already admitted to its fans that it has no shot to compete for a title this year? You can’t.

Winner: Raptors. Final score: West 10, East 5.

So my super-scientific analysis shows that not only is the West still the better and deeper conference overall, it’s not even close even when being generous near the end. Especially this season, pre-trading deadline.

The lesson in this for the Thunder is not to forget the frightening almost-parity in the West. If the East is top-heavy, the West is middle-heavy. In a season when the difference between 53 wins and 49 wins could be having the second seed and being out of the playoffs, that matters.

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Hey, just popping in over from Blazers Edge to check in with my other favorite team in the west and one of, I think, the best developing teams in the league. I'm actually catching a web stream of your preseason game right now and wanted to do some research on the rest of your roster as I'm mostly familiar with the legendary KD and a little bit with some of your fantastically named guys like Krstic or Ibaka. Certainly I agree that OKC is going to be one of the best in the west but I think that Portland is your biggest challenger to the #2 spot.

Certainly, compared to San Antonio, we fared better against the suns in the playoffs last season (we went 2-4, they went 0-4) and, I don't know if any of you watched those games, our All Star in Portland, Brandon Roy, had to use both hands to drag his knee behind him which really cut into his ability to shoot the ball. We also had a higher seed than SA and we played the season with approximately half our team.

This year we're older, not injured, and ready to go. I don't think Utah and San Antonio are going to give us too much trouble. Its you guys and the Lakers and then Denver and Dallas are strong too. Hard to take anything for granted in this league as the season is long and, as this article pointed out, the west is strong.

Good luck this season guys!

There was talk of Vegas lines, and I just love to bring up that I got 60 to 1 odds on the Thunder for the title last year while i was in Vegas. That was definitely worth it (despite the loss)!

@Sammy

Dirk should have had it.

@Keith
I understand what you're saying. I don't think any of us would complain about getting a dominant, traditional big. I still hold, though, that if KD never improves his playmaking and he leads his team to a title, that team would definitely be breaking a mold. No high usage, high scoring, non-passing wing has ever done it. It'd be great to be the first.

@justin
But Justin Ibaka's comps blah blah blah

@Sammy
I tend to disagree still on the layout of the team. Russ likes to shoot, but he's still demanded to do traditional PG duties. Thabo/Harden are SGs through and through. KD is a SF, and despite his versatility, isn't nearly as effective elsewhere. Our bigs are our main weakness, so their non-traditional value generally isn't that important. We rebound well without dominant big men, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't be greatly improved with much more traditional bigs (I believe we would). We defend well without interior bruising defenders, but that's exactly why we aren't a truly dominant defending team (again achieved with more traditional bigs).

Lebron is new age in that he can do everything for the team and win at every position. KD, while still amazing, isn't. He's a much more narrow player in comparison, as are all of our guys. An ability to defend multiple positions (do mostly to size, not necessarily skill) doesn't make our guys all that versatile. They still tend to play very traditionally. Russ is the only passer in our starting lineup at PG. Thabo and Harden are off the ball stoppers/shooters who play better off someone else. KD is the high volume wing scorer. Green and Krstic don't play like big men, and we criticize them for it. If we were really so founded on versatility, the only guys that play non-traditionally compared to their position wouldn't be the worst players in our starting lineup.

I'm starting to worry about this team. While miami added lebron and bosh, we added aldrich. We are letting the offense come to us while lebron is doing the pnr with bosh and kicking it out to mike miller. Some on is playing chess while the other is playing checkers.

@dream catcher

And without the best defensive center of his generation...

@dream catcher
.. and younger players.
By the way, Tibor Pleiss got 14 pts 8 rebs 3 blks and 2 steals in German League

i forgot to add tremendous chemistry. I think we can be the 2004 Pistons with a dominant scorer, which is scary.

agree with Sammy. Our foundation is on players who are versatile, who play defense, and play hard. When you get down to it that's what we are. What makes us special IMO is the fact that one of those players is a generational scorer.

@Keith
Totally agree with your argument re: system.

As for the Thunder, I don't think we're built all that traditionally at all. We're a good rebounding team with poor rebounding bigs (at least poor rebounding starting bigs). We're a good defensive team with a weak interior defense. I think any time you build a roster of mainly perimeter players that can do what we've done on the boards and on defense, there's something a bit unconventional going on. Russ is a good passer, but he's not a pass-first point guard. KD is an elite player, but he's not a passer at all. One of KD-skeptics' main arguments against him is that his play style is most similar to Gervin, English, and Wilkins: great scorers that were never able to lead their teams to great playoff success. If we were to win a title, it'd be a first for a player like KD, so, no, I don't think the Thunder's blueprint for success is all that traditional.

@Sammy
Those Suns teams were a whole lot of fun to watch. And you're right that Dirk, Amare, and Marion weren't your traditional bruisers. But they did what a team needed from their big men, which is all I care about when it comes to players. Not to twist this around, but it is the main reason I'm not a Green fan. It's one thing if we ran like the Suns and Green was a super finisher in transition who could also disrupt passing lanes on defense, but we're not. We're built very traditionally, despite the often praised versatility of our players. Green doesn't fit what the team needs, which is the only thing that is important.

Dirk, Amare, and Marion don't fit everywhere, but they were elite for the teams they were on. When I say a team can't win without high end big men, I specifically mean they can't win without big men who are high performers in that system. System often makes and breaks certain players, that doesn't make what they did on one team any more or less valid than what they did on another.

Keith :@Sammy

You can’t win without being able to execute/defend in the half court…
Isn’t that one as true as it gets? The half-court game IS the playoffs for the most part. That’s kind of like saying you can’t win without being able to score and defend in general.

Yeah, that one I actually completely buy.

@Keith
I really loved those Phoenix teams and I openly rooted for them in the playoffs (especially considering how bad my Sonics were then). I would have loved to have seen them win it all.

I guess when I think of the prototypical playoff big man, I'm thinking of your traditional low-post powerhouse, the high efficiency back-to-the-basket guy that does it on both ends of the floor. Amare, Dirk and Marion don't really fit that mold at all.

@Sammy
You can't win without being able to execute/defend in the half court...

Isn't that one as true as it gets? The half-court game IS the playoffs for the most part. That's kind of like saying you can't win without being able to score and defend in general.

@Sammy
You're right in that simple cliches do not make or break a team, and that the Thunder certainly have a lot of obstacles. I don't believe they should be considered the second best team in the West. But, I understand that they are a hot name, and that rankings and betting lines are based on perception, not necessarily fact.

Though it's interesting that you bring up those duo's as the anti big men. Really, both duos satisfy my needs for championship big men. Dirk can score on anybody, just like Amare. Dampier isn't an elite defender, but he's good enough to let Dirk do the heavy lifting on offense. Marion, meanwhile, was a tremendous defender, rebounder, and all around player. He didn't have the traditional size of a big man, but he certainly played like a great one with Phoenix.

The 'you can't win without a top big man' is not unrelated to the 'you can't win without being able to execute/defend in the half court' argument.

@Keith
Considering 'big man' encompasses two positions, I think it'd be incredibly difficult to win it all with 2/5ths of your lineup left wanting. That said, with a bit better luck, the Mavs could have won it with Dirk and Dampier and the Suns with Amare and Marion, not exactly the big tough skill guys most people are thinking about when they make the 'big man' statement.

In any case, whether the statement holds true or not, is kinda irrelevant to my point.

It's the whole stretching the defense idea that makes it logical. If a team only has to defend the perimeter, they can. Perimeter shots are lower percentage and defenses can overcompensate for one-trick offenses. The same is true of an inside game only. If a defense only really needs to worry about drives and post-ups, they can just pack the lane and force jump shots.

Defense in the post also tends to take on higher priority because of the relative high efficiency of post shots as well as the rotation on slashers. If you have an anchor in the middle (or at PF, whatever), they defense suddenly becomes a lot easier to utilize. Just look at Orlando. Pietrus is the only good defender in the starting lineup besides Dwight, yet they consistently are one of the best defensive teams in the league. We were an elite perimeter defense squad, but were 8th in efficiency because we couldn't keep opponents from scoring in the post.

@Sammy
I do give some credence to the idea that you can't win without a strong big man. That's not to say you need prime Shaq or Duncan, but you need a guy who can consistently score against good defenses, defend incredibly against top players, or a reasonable mix of both. People tend to forget that Horace Grant was a very good player, and that Dennis Rodman was more defensive monster than crazy crossdresser on the court. I don't think any team has ever won a championship without a strong big man (though they need to be strong at multiple positions regardless).

04-05 Pistons were 18th best on offense, 2nd on defense. Those Pistons beat the final run of Kobe & Shaq after the 3 peat and after the tensions rose higher. Nobody over PER 19, 1 over Offensive Rating of 110.

OKC last season had 1 over PER 19 and 3 over Offensive Rating of 110. If they can get up near top 2 on defense they can perhaps upset like those Pistons. A 5th ranked defense might still have a shot but a 5th to 8th ranked defense with an offense outside the top 10-15 is far less likely to do so than one with a top 2 defense.

@Patrick James
You could make the "you can't win a championship without..." comment about a number of things the Thunder don't have. "You can't win a championship without a top big man"; "You can't win a championship without at least a decent offense"; "You can't win a championship without veteran leadership"; "You can't win a championship when your best player is a non-passing wing scorer" (my personal favorite).

I don't think any of the above cliches are necessarily true and/or I don't think they all need necessarily apply to the Thunder, but I guess my point is there at least as many roadblocks on the road to a title for the Thunder as there are for the Blazers or Spurs.

OKC currently the 5th choice at 15-1 on one line. The 04-05 Pistons comparison is looking more and more apt with the heavy bias toward using recently available roster spots and training time to focus on defense well more than offense.

I decided to push a little further.

Pistons were tied for 6th pick in 2003-4 at 15-1 and they went on to win.

After that I gave up again. 2003 would be interesting and the years Jordan was out in the mid 90s but other than those possibilities the rest of the winners were clearly top 1 or 2 choices. So out of 20 years it is likely that it fell out of the top 4 choices 1-2 times.

@Dan
rondo wasnt "bad" that season 4th highest scorer, led team in assists and steals, wasnt a superstar but not bad either.

@justin
they are playing the pistons who are bottom 5 team in the nba

@f5alcon

I could fairly easily find pre-season lines for the last 5 years. After that I gave up. The winners were always top 4 on the listed odds. Usually top 1 or 2 but since there isn't just one line I wouldn't want to pin it down more exact.

@f5alcon
Rondo was bad that year, this iteration of big three > Boston's at time of title and probably even in their primes, the Heat's bench is pretty good (Mike Miller, Udonis Haslem, Mario Chalmers, Carlos Arroyo) and even better when you consider the shortened rotations of the playoffs and the bench players will play better next to the stars on Miami, Boston's bench, while very good, was not transcendent or anything like that, all three of them have played full seasons (fickle and diming them of 1-2 games is dumb since everyone misses 1-2 games for rest if nothing else), and even if one was to go down the other 2 would still be dominant.

Finally I think one overlooked point is the effect on even advanced stats of stars playing together - KG, by WS/48, had his second best season in the title year in Boston, Paul Pierce his best, and Ray Allen his second best. Similarly, Gasol's last two seasons as a Laker have been his best (and Bosh's offensive and rebounding stats have been better than Gasol's before he went to LA). Simply put, the effect of playing with other superstars on production transcends the mere 1-1 tradeoff between usage and offensive rating - star players actually play much, much better when pared with top 5-10 players.

@Crow
ok, yeah would be interesting to see how well vegas picks

Wade got hurt early and Miami still looks great.

@f5alcon

I am doing some searching on it right now and may have more to share later.

@Joe
boston had a better bench, and rondo exploded that year, nobody on the heat is going to have a rondo level leap.

Also wade, lebron and bosh have never played a full season, at somepoint they are gonna be down a star or two or three.

the wolves have talent if they can learn the triangle.

I watched the Lakers/T-wolves last night on NBA tv and the Wolves looked like a decent team believe it or not. They started Ridnour,Wes Johnson, Beasley, Love and Darko with Ellington, Martell Webster and Pekerov off the bench. Pretty decent, not doormats.

I also think that the Miami team will be formidable. I didn't think Boston could put those three together and win their first year and they did it; so with that as a blueprint, I think Miami can also, even though I think the Lakers are improved from last year if they are healthy.

im sure it has happened, i dunno where to find the historic odds though.

Actually same time last season Vegas had a 3rd team higher (Boston) but the 4th was about the same. The odds after the 3rd or 4th team are a lot about getting bets and I don't think they are too worried about any of them coming thru. Might be interesting to check the past and see how often a team ranked 5th or lower paid off on this though.

@Crow
hmm yeah makes sense, though i am not convinced the heat are best in the east, maybe if i could bet that they wont win,lol. i think boston and orlando are better all around, and their big men will score art will against the heat

i dont think i could bet for a division rival, it would just feel wrong, otherwise id probably try, i havnt bet on sports since college.

wade pulls hamstring 3 mins into first preseason game.

They have given almost all of the expectation to LA and Miami. 3rd and 4th choices are probably lighter than normal and after that they aren't expecting much chance.

Yeah, if I was a bettor 35-1 would draw my attention. If I bet I might bet a few teams are various levels.

the line on portland might be worth the bet if they are only 8th best odds.

Correction: I guess Patrick’s list order was actually Stein's power rankings. But that is probably close enough to contender strength so comparing with the Vegas list is more similar than I suggested.

Surprising to me Vegas has Portland 8th in the west on chances of a title. I think 6th is closer to how I'd rate them and I might put them higher.

In predicting chances to win the title Vegas from out of the west Vegas has it

Lakers
Oklahoma City
Utah
Denver
Dallas
San Antonio

It is not the same thing as regular season prediction but average these Vegas ranks with Patrick's rankings and it would be

1 Lakers
2 Oklahoma City
4 Utah
4.5 Dallas
4.5 San Antonio
6.5 Denver

I think that Utah, Dallas and San Antonio is tough to rank exactly. I am not convinced that OKC is ahead of that group. I think they are more likely in that group or behind it than ahead of it but we'll see.

@Dan
thats assuming millsap starts and not jefferson though otherwise the dynamic doesnt change.

I disagree with your list of contenders. There isn't much to suggest the Mavs will do any better than last year since no one (barring a huge leap by Roddy) can create their own offense aside from Dirk. The Blazers definitely do belong on that list however. If healthy, they have a dominant center and great backup center, a solid point guard, an elite shooting guard, a good-great power forward, and a super-role player small forward. I also think the Spurs have a shot. Tony Parker's health is underrated, Tim Duncan's minutes will again be regulated, and they added a ton of bench depth. Finally, I think the jazz are a dark, dark horse candidate for the title. Millsap = Boozer with more energy, less injuries, less height, and less choking against the Lakers and Jefferson brings a great new wrinkle to their offense with his low post talents.

I also think a OKC vs. Boston would be a pretty cool finals...or Miami, of course. I guess we'll find out a lot more about all these questions VERY soon.

GO THUNDER!!

@f5alcon

I hear they plan to play Beasley some or even mainly at SF. Worth trying. Not sure if those will be the best lineups of any or even better than with him at PF. At Miami his stats and the team stats were better at PF. Visually you might lean toward putting him at SF but the stats give another perspective. But every team is a different context and players can grow / adapt or not.

Great stuff here! good work Patrick James.

@Anonymous
Are you the same "Anonymous" or are they like 2-3 in a row?
I only ask..well... cause say your from LA or Miami or France and you don't want us to know. Why not just say your from New York or Canada or where ever and your still anonymous.
Sorry. Had to say something.
If you have time to read and post, take two freakin' seconds to post a name, at least please. (especially for critical comments)

Oden could perhaps become a top 10 impact player in a few years, best case scenario.

@f5alcon

In-line with what y9ou said:
Teams currently given at least a 10% chance of winning a title by Vegas: East 3 West 1.

But
5+% chance: East 3 West 4 (including the Thunder).

@Bryan
just go with thunderdome.

I wonder if they play beasley at the 3 at all.

Trackbacks

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  2. [...] The West isn’t getting any worse. I didn’t think it would, but it would have been fortuitous for the Thunder if I was wrong. San Antonio is defying preseason [...]