Home > Commentary > Things I want to see during next season – Part II

Things I want to see during next season – Part II

Nathaniel S. Butler/NBAE/Getty Images

2. I want to see Russell Westbrook’s FIBA defense in the NBA

If you haven’t been watching the World Championships or the exhibitions that led up to it, you’ve really missed out on seeing one of the most crystal clear displays of what Sam Presti was thinking when he drafted Russell Westbrook to be a defensive stopper out on the perimeter for this franchise.

Westbrook has been everywhere defensively on the perimeter and even down on the blocks when he’s seen the opportunity to double a post player. His hands have been almost relentlessly active, his footwork has steered guards to where he wants them to be and, thanks to FIBA rules, Westbrook has used his sizeable strength advantage to amazing effect, bodying guards to the point that they are entirely redirected anytime they want to drive to the bucket.

This display leads me to one thought over and over again as I watch this unbelievable performance: Why haven’t I seen this on the Thunder?

Now I have a lot of ideas about why Westbrook-the-defender in FIBA is vastly superior to Westbrook-the-defender in the NBA, but they all seem to center around the fact that international competition allows contact when you’re guarding out on the perimeter (just like you can in college) and to put it kindly, Westbrook is almost always going to be bigger, stronger, quicker and able to impose his will physically on almost any point guard (and even some shooting guards) in international competition.

In short, Westbrook is allowed to use the very utmost of his athletic ability to defend in FIBA, whereas in the NBA he is practically handcuffed regarding his size and strength.

But that excuse means very little to me, to be honest. After two years, Westbrook needs to adapt to this less physical style of play because it’s painfully obvious that he has the quickness and position awareness to move his feet and cut offensive players off without using a hand-check or a bullying chest bump.

If these World Championships have taught us anything it is that Sam Presti was absolutely correct in believing that Russell Westbrook can be a hounding, disruptive defensive stopper in the NBA. He has all the tools and desire (which is what defense is 90% about anyway) to be a top-level defender, he just needs to stop leaving those tools in the tool box if it’s just because he can’t use hand-checks.

That’s why the second thing I most want to see happen next season is for the Westbrook that I’m watching on Team USA on defense to make an 82 game appearance on the Thunder.  Because if that happens, then a lot of issues about who Thabo has to guard as the defensive stopper on the perimeter, if Thabo is really needed in the starting lineup as badly, etc, etc, will be somewhat resolved organically.

In addition, the Thunder would easily become a Top 5 defensive unit if opposing PG’s weren’t consistently wreaking havoc on the defensive scheme and the scoreboard like they have done over the last two seasons from time to time (plus Thabo can stop guarding PG’s instead of SG’s/SF’s, which drives me crazy).

But most of all, I wouldn’t have to live with the frustration that Westbrook COULD be an amazing defender, as I saw from him at UCLA and now with FIBA, but seemingly just can’t put it together in a Thunder uniform.

Because there’s nothing more frustrating than knowing something is possible—and yet it never materializes.

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horford has reached his ceiling - or 95% of it ... he's a 3 yr college player with 3 yrs in the league ... wysiwyg ... he is an all-star & kudos to him .. but he is also limited ... thus far we have seen no clear limits or cracks in ibakas game ... & as has been pointed out, given the same minutes as al, ibakas production is surely on par .. plus, the athleticism alone is something that can not be charted

@Crow- In Horford's rookie season, he put up 10.1, 9.7 and .9 in 31.4 min per. For his 3 rd season in league, 14.2, 9.9 and 1.1 in 35.1 min per. These are obviously nice numbers, but his increased totals seem to be more the result of increased minutes than improved ability- and it's hard to imagine his minutes going up any further. With Ibaka, I think it is entirely probable that we see both improved play and more minutes. No, there is obviously no way guarantee that he will be better than Horford in the yrs to come- but it seems entirely possible that could be giving us similar , if not better production per min than Horford gives Atlanta, and to categorically state that "not trading Ibaka for Horford if given the opportunity is crazy" is an I'll-informed position to take. Might be wrong- we will see- but clearly not crazy.

Part of the issue is whether to expect further improvement of Horford or not. If the first part of this season is pretty close to last season it is a tougher call. But the debate seems quite unlikely to ever become real in the GM offices.

@Razr-Having to defend Ibaka's tremendous potential on a Thunder site seems odd to me. Defending his relative value against another player arising from a hypothetical trade that will never happen seems even odde, but here goes. In the playoffs, against the world champs, Serge gave us 7.8 ppg, 6.5 rpg, and 2 bpg in 25.5 mpg of play. Horford averaged 14.6 ppg, 9 rpg, and 1.7 bpg in 35.5 mpg against playoff teams that were not as good as the Lakers. If Ibaka's numbers are multiplied out by the disparity in their minutes played, it comes to 10.7 ppg, 8.9 rpg and 2.7 bpg. From where I'm sitting, that looks like a very comparable performance against better opposition, by a raw rookie that didn't even speak the same language as his coach and fellow players. Only a 10% chance of being as good as Horford?

In Justin's defense, fans have a tendency to fall in love with potential. I'm in love with Ibaka's potential myself. But the chance that he will become as good, consistent, all-star caliber as Horford is probably no more than 10%. Justin seems to go out of his way trying to be a self-appointed voice of reason, which is difficult on a fan site. I appreciate him because this kind of dispassionate (ok, sometimes passionate) look at the team and players is necessary in the pursuit of a championship. It is extremely difficult to get to that level, and glass-half-full optimism creates unrealistic expectations and complacency. I'm glad for Justin's role as the anti-complacent fan.

@justin
Seriously dude, what is it with you? It seems like you are responsible for about every third post on this site- so apparently you consider yourself a fan of the Thunder- but most of your time is spent spewing negative crap about the team. Have you considered visiting the sites of whatever NBA teams you actually do like?

@justin
And you know this because? Ibaka's lack of athleticism? Poor work ethic? Oh yes, I forgot, you are a know it all douche.

Steve H :@Nick- I get the argument, and you definitely make a legitimate point, but absolutely hate the idea of sending Ibaka anywhere until we have a better idea of how good he is going to be. Right now it is impossible to put a ceiling on his potential, and I’m unwilling to risk spending the next 10 yrs or so cussing about the one we let slip away.

It's highly unlikely Ibaka will be as good as Al Horford. Even if it does happen, you still have Al Horford.

@Nick- I get the argument, and you definitely make a legitimate point, but absolutely hate the idea of sending Ibaka anywhere until we have a better idea of how good he is going to be. Right now it is impossible to put a ceiling on his potential, and I'm unwilling to risk spending the next 10 yrs or so cussing about the one we let slip away.

@Steve H
I think this is one of those assuming development issues. Yes, Ibaka COULD become an All-Star. Clearly, emphasis on the could. Horford already is one. Ibaka COULD turn into an elite defender/rebounder at the 4. Horford already is one, with the added bonus of having proven that he can perform admirably when playing out of position at the 5. Ibaka COULD turn into an above average offensive player with a decent post game and reliable mid-range jumper. Horford already is. I don't see how you can pass up trading somebody for what you hope they become, even if Ibaka is cheaper.

And in two years, if Ibaka is playing in the all star game while still under his rookie contract that you traded away, wouldn't you feel silly? In his rookie yr, Horford put up 10 LPG, 9.7 rpg and .9 bpg in 31 mpg. Ibaka gave us 6.3 ppg, 5.4 rpg and 1.3 bpg in just 18 mpg. When you add in the disparity in their backgrounds ( growing up in the frigging Congo, not speaking ENGLISH his rookie year), and the fact that Serge is 3 yrs younger, I think you guys are significantly under appreciating what a great- all star caliber player Ibaka could turn out to be.

@justin
A nanosecond is way too long to wait to make that trade.

We'd be unbelievably good with Horford / Durant / Westbrook / Harden.

You trade Ibaka for Horford in a nanosecond are you nuts!

@Keith- Landing Horford in a trade is probably pie in the sky, but I wouldn't put anything past Presti at this point. That said, I wouldn't include Ibaka in any deal. That guy has too much potential to risk losing. I'd be willing to offer Maynor (and they could use pg help), one of our expiring bigs, picks and maybe prospects like Mullens or Pleiss, but if that couldn't do it, never mind. If they re-sign Crawford, they have no real need for another wing (Green), and if they don't keep Crawford, they can afford to sign Horford.

@justin
It helps that signing Westbrook wouldn't put us well into the luxury tax for a non-contender. I'm not saying a Horford sign and trade wouldn't net more, but if Atlanta is even shopping him, they won't get equal value by a long shot. Still, a trade would likely require 3 things: replacement, upgrade, and youth.

We would need to send back a center, and Atlanta would require at least Aldrich - but probably Ibaka. We would need to upgrade one of their positions (PG and SF are weakest), requiring probably Green. And then of course youth, which is pretty much covered but would likely require a first round pick or two.

Sorry J.G., I think this thread has been hijacked.

Steve H :Just reading that Al Horford will be restricted FA next yr if not extended. If Hawks extend Crawford’s expiring contract, those guys would be doomed to luxury tax hell if they also pay Horford close to what he should command from other teams. I wonder if Presti could maneuver some kind of sign and trade to land Big Al? Maynor, Collison or Kristic and 2 first rounders? Still lopsided, but hard to see how they get better value without also taking back a bunch of salary.

Collison and Krstic will not be on the team next offseason so how can they be part of a trade?

Would you trade Russell Westbrook for Maynor, Collison, Krstic and 2 first rounders? C'mon... Horford's an All Star big, of course they could get better value for him in a S&T.

I would still be shocked if the Grizzlies or Hawks would be stupid enough to let us get Horford or Gasol. Seems like a pipe dream to me. Unless they actually want out and are patient enough to take the one year qualifying offers so they can be unrestricted FAs (like David Lee did). I haven't heard anything about either of them wanting out.

@Boots
I didn't watch it all either, but he also had multiple travelling calls on plays where he caught it on the wing and started to attack the basket. It was kinda strange, but on the stream I was watching I couldn't tell if he was really travelling or if it was some shoddy refereeing. I assume KD knows how to catch the ball and start dribbling, but maybe he was legitimately travelling.

@Gavin
I like this idea/situation. That would put us over the top, as far as I'm concerned.

@Boots
I only saw 1st and 4th qts, and KD slipped on the advert one time or more and had some sloppy ball-handling on some other occasions. One of the cats who watch the entire game should have more details.

Can someone tell me anything about Durant's 8 TO's?

@Steve H
That is what I am hoping. Atlanta to extend Crawford and Memphis to extend Randolph, so we can steal either Horford or Gasol.

Anyone else notice that the Brazil jersey's say "Electrobras" across the stomach????? just sayin....

Just reading that Al Horford will be restricted FA next yr if not extended. If Hawks extend Crawford's expiring contract, those guys would be doomed to luxury tax hell if they also pay Horford close to what he should command from other teams. I wonder if Presti could maneuver some kind of sign and trade to land Big Al? Maynor, Collison or Kristic and 2 first rounders? Still lopsided, but hard to see how they get better value without also taking back a bunch of salary.

I dont believe KD must play as he is in thunder.In this game,he did more than in thunder but rested less time.

Anyone know where to find the +/- for the FIBA games?

Durant was awesome in the 1st half, and really bad in the 2nd half. Although fatigue probably had a lot to do with that.

It is an ugly games.But result is good.
Did KD have rest?He is so important to this team.Someone say it is team B,but no KD it is team C or worse.
Spain/Greece/Argentina does not show anything better than team USA,so I am not worry about this team.

What does it say about Chauncey Billups that I'd rather have Westbrook out there making poor decisions instead of him? At least there would have been less pull up brick 3 pointers.

@Jax Raging Bile Duct
D-rose certainly wasnt spectacular either.

Machete. Mack Brown. Machete. Mack Brown. These commercials are giving me bad ideas.

What does it say about Tyson Chandler when Lamar Odom and Kevin Love, two guys best suited to play the 4, are playing ahead of him? Even when Odom is so tired he can hardly lift his feet off the ground?

Billups, Westbrook and AI9 were sloppy and made poor decisions all game.

Whew!

Okay, so how much time off do we have now to work on every single thing.

Wow. if k-love isnt in to box out on FTs i am gonna kick something.

Ticky tack foul. Very very ticky tack

Seriously Chauncey, stop with the pull up 3s

I can't tell on the stream, is KD really travelling?

Billups has clearly taken offense to me calling him the 2nd most important player on the team and has spent the whole second half trying to prove me wrong.

Wow, Chauncey has been horrible recently. I retract my earlier positive Chauncey statement.

I'd much prefer Dwight Howard.

I'd much prefer Kevin Love on the floor to Lamar Odom

I think it's time to take Chauncey off the floor. Jacking shots, and just missed a simple layup.

Durant looks tired. and please sub love for odom coach k.