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DON'T PICK SAMHAN. LORD, PLEASE. THE WCC IS NO PLACE TO PULL STATS FROM. LOOK AT MORRISON FOR GOD'S SAKE.

One of Parakhouski, Jordan or Samhan for the center spot.
One of Sanders, Whiteside or Varnado mostly for the PF spot.

I could be pretty satisfied with that.

If they get somebody considered "better", including by trading up, these will be my measuring sticks later.

Across the sample of all his games, in addition to Samhan being #1 in the country on PER, he was #7 in points per minute (and mostly inside, a team need), 9th on rebounds per minute and 11th on blocks per minute. Not a strong school, but got them to the Sweet 16. I'd think a center with those stats is worth some consideration.

Stats, especially collge stats are certainly not "everything", but I decided to look at these 4 stats for other bigs. Among the top 1 st round bigs only Aldrich, Sanders and Whiteside are top 25 on 3 of the 4.

None of these are top 25 on points per minute. A weak team needed Samhan for that and maybe he isn't going to that done in the NBA. But none of the others have a track record of strong points per minute production. If inside scoring is important that could be worth some consideration. He probably won't exceed the expectations of others but I thought there was enough to at least raise the possibility.

In the second round Varnado, Parakhouski and Jordan also pull 3 top 25s.

Brackins and Parahouski were only other ones to get a top 25 on points per minute.

If you don't like Samhan, I'd probably prefer one or more of the 6 others guys that got 3 top 25s.

St. Mary got destroyed in a game. Because his teammates did zilch well and he didn't do enough. Where are all the people that like to say small sample, can't base a conclusion off that?

You'd need a good workout to consider taking him but I'd bring him in and at least look closer for a few hours. But they'll do and not do what they think best.

ThunderHorn :@Crow
It was 52-19 when Samhan got his 15th point.
He finished with good stats but none of those are meaningful considering they were destroyed. He had 3 points in the first half.
The draft is too deep to take a guy like Samhan with the 51st pick. There are better players that will be able to contribute.

again, excellent post . . .

the guy was a complete non-factor - Davis's perfromance against the Lakers last night looks great if you compare the two performances . . .

Haha...thanks bro. We'll make it a good one for ya.

@Joel

Aye captain.

I'll listen again next week.

@ThunderHorn
if he goes undrafted maybe stick him on our summer league team

"I have a hard time listening to the thunderground guys on this podcast. I gave them the sports animal treatment..."@jax
raging whatever your name is...

You can hate us, call us dumb and turn us off, but PLEASE don't lump us in with the sports animal. Come on bro, that's just cruel.

@Crow

It was 52-19 when Samhan got his 15th point.

He finished with good stats but none of those are meaningful considering they were destroyed. He had 3 points in the first half.

The draft is too deep to take a guy like Samhan with the 51st pick. There are better players that will be able to contribute.

@f5alcon

Samhan seems to have decent height. Would be important to measure his length and hops in a private workout. You can train and often improve explosiveness and lateral movement to a point.

But I'll get off this point.

At #51 I think you ask, can I really do better taking anything other than a chance on a big? Work with him a few months and / or if appropriate ask him to go overseas.

If not Samhan then look at Parakhousiki, Pittman, Zoubek, Haragondy or whoever.

@Crow
you cant teach physical attributes, but you can teach skills to a point.

It seems like draft prospects with awesome physical attributes get their lack of skills and game knowledge overlooked easier than the reverse. Lack of either is a concern.

But I wouldn't go just off stats or a few NCAA games. But he did have the highest PER of any player in college basketball. And he did fine against Thabeet as a freshman.

You'd certainly want to see a good workout against competition and hear a reputable scout say good things about skills at NBA level.

Samhan scored 15+ 90% of the time and got 7+ rebounds 95% of the time. The schedule wasn't that bad.

Could Samhan get in better shape and develop into a decent 8-15 minute player against backups? Or even just be a useful insurance policy 14th man? I'm guessing the answer could be at least higher than a flat no. But it is just a guess.

No I didn't see that game.

But 15 pts on 7-17 shooting, 9 rebs (6 offensive), 0 turnovers and 2 blocks and just 2 fouls committed against Baylor wasn't bad. They lost as badly as they did because the 3 point shooters went 6-22 and surely that made doubling Samhan easier.

My thinking about Samhan was just fishin' for a possible surprise with the late 2nd round pick. But there are others out there too to consider.

@Crow
Not to mention the lack of a defensive 3 second violation.

@Crow

Wasn't just Lomers on him. Clearly you didn't watch the game b/c if you did you wouldn't be having all these questions. He's was completely overwhelmed by Baylor's length/athleticism inside.

He got all this hype after dominating Nova, but Nova has no size inside.

College zones help make it hard to judge post players.

@Keith

M Gasol was called unathletic too. But I was playing devil's advocate and looking to draw out opinions.

Lomers is listed at 7 foot 280. There are about 20 guys that height and weight in the NBA but only about 8 that play a lot and would be regularly faced.

@f5alcon

It is supposed to be team need by now but I don't know how much they have really considered that for the 2nd round yet.

@Kev

He's listed at 6-11 but I'd be surprised if he were taller than 6-10.

Baylor definitely exposed him. When Josh Lomers can dominate you defensively, you are in trouble.

@Crow
For Samhan it is an issue of being unathletic, for M Gasol it was an issue of not being in the best shape. Also, while obviously Gasol has turned out to be pretty good, he was drafted more on his last name than his production. Samhan does not have the size, athleticism, or big time name to get a good chance in the NBA.

But then again, there are always guys who don't get draft (or drafted too low) who end up surprising. Maybe Samhan is that guy.

i wonder what kestics vertical is now, cant be very high, same with shaq.

Podkolzine had a no step vertical of almost 20 inches which was essentially the lowest ever measured, though probably not the lowest any NBA pro has had. Does Samhan have that or less? If it is 20 is that completely unworkable or just a significant issue to consider in the overall balance of what he can still do?

@Crow
does draft express take team need into account or are they doing best available?

Crow :Samhan must have pretty good footwork. Vertical is nice of course but how does he compare to M Gasol (no test info) or Orton (no step vert 24 inches) or Alabl (22.5 inches)?He didn’t take the test. From your remark I assume it is low but how low I wonder. That he isn’t in the late 2nd does suggest it must be low and considered significant… but then I come back to tons of teams who passed on Marc Gasol til he went 48th.

I think he's several inches shorter than Gasol . . .

ThunderHorn :@Crow
Samhan has the vertical of a toddler. He is not an NBA player in anyway athletically. He was completely shut down against Baylor. He’ll face that same type of legnth/athleticism in the NBA nightly. He’s bound for Europe.

excellent post - Baylor exposed him bigtime - I actaully felt sorry for him that game - he's got no shot in the NBA . . .

@Crow

He wasn't even invited to the draft combine shows what GMs/Scouts think of him as an NBA player.

Samhan must have pretty good footwork. Vertical is nice of course but how does he compare to M Gasol (no test info) or Orton (no step vert 24 inches) or Alabl (22.5 inches)?
He didn't take the test. From your remark I assume it is low but how low I wonder. That he isn't in the late 2nd does suggest it must be low and considered significant... but then I come back to tons of teams who passed on Marc Gasol til he went 48th.

@Crow

Samhan has the vertical of a toddler. He is not an NBA player in anyway athletically. He was completely shut down against Baylor. He'll face that same type of legnth/athleticism in the NBA nightly. He's bound for Europe.

After Serpahin at 22, draftexpress has only 2 bigs (bigger than a tweener forward) picked before 39. And 14 bigs from there thru the end of the mock 2nd. I don't think it will go that way.

With all the talk about teams getting a big man by the early 20s I have a hard time believing there is a clear cutoff point and then they are all going to wait til the 40s or 50s to take the remaining guys. I think some of the remaining big men will move up but I don't know how much.

@Crow
his numbers are good, id go after him

How much is Samhan like the not yet in real good shape Marc Gasol and how much could he be like the improved M Gasol?

I don't know where he should go but I am somewhat surprised Samhan isn't even in the mock late 2nd round right now.

@Jax Raging Bile Duct
i think getting the 16th pick from the wolves would be the easiest, they have tons of picks and somebody like weaver and our 21st pick would probably get it. They need a SG

justin :@James
Trading up to the lotto for Whiteside or Orton doesn’t sound smart to me.

I don't think they would have to necessarily get into the lottery to get either. I don't think there are any shooters in the draft that would help us and we definitely don't need any more 3's or 4's. That leaves us with centers with size. Cousins and Favors are most likely going to require a trade into the top 4 (which I just don't see happening). Whiteside and Orton are the next two size guys that could play the 5 IMO. Just guessing.

On the "Jax Big Board", if you can't get Cousins at 2 or 4, getting Whiteside at 14-16 would be acceptable.

Redick, or really it is Redick + whatever help, is roughly equal to defending his man in Orlando to Harden with help in OKC. Hard to say who is better at help defense themselves, but it might be Harden modestly.

@James

Trading up to the lotto for Whiteside or Orton doesn't sound smart to me.

yeah i wouldnt trust any report on presti's activity until it happens, im surprised he hasnt had durant find some hidden talent in china that we are going to target

justin :@Jax Raging Bile Duct
Greg Monroe? Who else would we trade into the lottery for? Ekpe Udoh?

I don't think Udoh is the guy. I don't the he or Aldrich will do much in the NBA. I would guess Whiteside with his 7'7 wing span 9'5 reach or Orton. I don't know that either of those would provide help this year but they both provide something we don't have. Whiteside's length and Orton's girth.

@Kev

I tend to agree, but this is the second time I've heard that rumor. Sometimes, where there is smoke, there is fire.

@justin

I hope neither Monroe or Udoh. Monroe is skilled, but I want a true center. Udoh is probably at his ceiling already, and he's another local kid. I've mentioned before how I think drafting local guys isn't a great idea.

But, that's not to say that Presti isn't thinking of those two. The article did say... For what it's worth, the Sixers are still asking teams to take basck Elton Brand's contract in a deal for the No. 2 pick. But virtually every GM I've spoken with believes the Sixers would soften their stance as we get closer to the draft. ... so a top 2 selection is still a possibility.

Keith :@KevAnd I’m saying I’ve watched both play as well. Reddick is a spot up shooter who knows his role. It’s not like people contest Reddick but not Harden. If anything, I’ve seen Reddick get a lot more open looks than Harden (mostly because Orlando’s offense works so much better than ours).
Harden has more skills than Reddick, and the %s reflect them both being relatively similar outside shooters. They basically shot the same amount of 3s, and Reddick shot 3% better. Given how much easier it is to get open shots in Orlando, I just don’t see how you can say Reddick has shown what you claim.

we can just agree to disagree . . .

@Kev
And I'm saying I've watched both play as well. Reddick is a spot up shooter who knows his role. It's not like people contest Reddick but not Harden. If anything, I've seen Reddick get a lot more open looks than Harden (mostly because Orlando's offense works so much better than ours).

Harden has more skills than Reddick, and the %s reflect them both being relatively similar outside shooters. They basically shot the same amount of 3s, and Reddick shot 3% better. Given how much easier it is to get open shots in Orlando, I just don't see how you can say Reddick has shown what you claim.

@Crow

Do you think it's a reasonable expectation for Harden's inside % to remain that low?

Most things improved for Redick this season. 61% TS%, low turnovers, better assists, better defense. But it would be surprising to see him get to OKC.

Redick vs Harden on shot location

Redick 60% on inside shots, Harden 47% in year 1.
Redick big advantages from mid-range too.
Quite similar on 3 pt frequency and FG%.

Jax Raging Bile Duct :Don’t know how many of you have insider, but Chad Ford has an article he posted a couple of hours ago that claims the Thunder are really aggressive in moving up in the draft.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/blog?name=nba_draft...
The Pistons, Spurs and Thunder have been the most aggressive about moving up.
The Pistons have been searching for a big and would love to get their hands on either DeMarcus Cousins or Derrick Favors. The Spurs and Thunder are also in the hunt for a big and have targeted a number of teams in the lottery to move up a few spots. The Thunder have multiple picks to offer. The Spurs have Tony Parker or George Hill. While the Spurs aren’t necessarily shopping either player, they’re not untouchable either. If the Spurs can get another big man to help prolong Tim Duncan’s career, they’ll do it.

smoke - I doubt it happens . . .