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1st round-draft henry if hes available or 2 project centers

so 2 project big men to battle it out with mullens in summer league and in the d-league to start the season. one of 3 has to be good right? i like those odds. then get a solid perimeter who can shoot(henry would be nice) and a foreigner to stash over seas.

pleae dont fraf any combo guards like warren...and pittman may go undrafted. sign him after the draft lol

I think thunder will go with tibor pleiss and dexter pittman, if they dont move up

@DXL

The Bynum comparison has a good amount of value in projecting what development might bring, but there are differences in physique and game.

Bynum shot inside 73% of the time in 2006-7 and the same this season. he knows he is and should be an inside player.

Ibaka shot inside 54% of the time. That is pretty good. I just hope it doesn't slip to 40% or below. It probably won't rise much or at least that quickly but if it did and it worked that would be helpful for the team.

Ibaka gets about half of the free throws per minute that Bynum gets.

Bynum started out shooting at a higher usage and it gradually rose. Ibaka's should rise slowly as long as his FG% is still good.

@Keith

I hear you.

I would strongly prefer not to make “no further change to the roster” but I backed off a bit, trying to be open to other viewpoints.

I think it is likely they will believe the draft and development is "enough". If they believe it, then they will have to show the results next spring.

Ibaka shoots way too many jump shots to shoot anywhere near 63% from the field.

1323 minutes plus 151 playoff minutes. Very few of those minutes were garbage time. Towards the end of the season and in the playoffs Ibaka played in the 4th quarters against the other team's best players. I believe Bynum was often benched in the 4th quarters in 06-07, but some Laker fan should let us know for sure.

Projections are always tricky but I wouldn't be surprised if Ibaka made a leap next year like Bynum made in his third year: 28.8 mpg, 13.1 points, 10.2 rebounds, 2.1 blocks, 63% shooting.

There are a lot of similarities in the advanced statistics between Bynum and Ibaka in their early careers. Bynum's 1793 minutes aren't that impressive either.

Hakeem Olajuwon was a major headache for much of his career.. many of the great players were.

@DXL

Bynum started most of those games, didn't he?

1300 minutes is a very small sample. Projecting Ibaka to future All Star makes a lot of assumptions lots of people aren't comfortable with. He would have to dramatically improve his skill level in a few areas.

@Keith
It's a different era, the intrusiveness of the media is a major factor in the arcs of players' careers now. Jordan's problems with out-of-control gambling, infidelity and general jerkiness during his career were mostly ignored by reporters during his career. I'm not sure he'd be allowed the same leeway these days. The media, and fans, focus on every single peccadillo and misstep. Players with weak characters or addictive personalities, like Eddie Curry or Michael Beasely, crumble under the intense off-the-court scrutiny. Good character is becoming a baseline requirement for NBA success.

Don't underestimate how promising Ibaka's season was last year. The most comparable season I could find was Andrew Bynum, at age 19, in his second year with the Lakers, the 06-07 season: 1793 minutes played, 15.4 PER, .593 TS%, 15.8 TRB%, 5.4 Blk%, 16.3 USG%.

Compare with Ibaka at age 20: 1323 minutes played, 15.2 PER, .562 TS%, 17.2 TRB%, 5.5 Blk%, 16.2 USG%.

@DXL
My point is that high character (to the degree many talk about it) is both unrealistic and limiting in our ability to improve. Michael Jordan was a complete A-hole in real life throughout his career, super egotistical, and a lot of people hated playing with him. Is he not a "Presti guy"? Shaquille O'Neal proclaimed himself to be the most dominant player ever despite being in the league at the same time as Jordan, he's also made loads of dumb decisions off the court. His 8 years, 4 finals, 3 rings, 3 finals MVPs, and 1 league MVP with LA say sustainable success wasn't exactly a failing, but he wouldn't be a "Presti guy."

Also, top 15 rebounding, top 10 shotblocking, and 12 points per game? Those are nearly double his current numbers. He would need to play 35 minutes a game to do that, and right now he is extremely foul prone. Not to mention, those numbers alone are almost exactly what one would expect out of Emeka Okafor, a player who has never deserved to be on an all-star team. The only commentators who will talk about Ibaka's candidacy at that point would be Thunder commentators (read: homers).

@Crow
I don't think there's any legitimate reason to make zero changes unless the ownership simply didn't want to pay. If some of our guys make jumps in development, then we just have more talent until contracts expire. At that point, we can just trade our excess talent for cheaper talent or better fits at other positions.

@Keith
There's a lot of teams that are feeling very lucky that they're not the ones providing day care to a self-destructive child like Michael Beasley. We will all see just how seriously Presti considers good character this year. We have 4 picks and I'll be stunned if any of them are spent on players with serious character questions.

The goal for Ibaka is to be seriously considered for the all-star team, whether he makes it or not is irrelevant. Camby didn't make it but was widely considered an egregious snub, consider this quote:

"That's a joke, man. Marcus Camby should have made it," Barkley said. "I'm deeply disturbed Camby didn't make this team."

If Ibaka puts up top 15 rebounding, top 10 shotblocking, 12 points a game, and the Thunder are on pace for 50 to 55 wins, then NBA commentators, without a doubt, will talk about how he deserves consideration.

Also, if you project out Cousins numbers if he were simply playing 33 minutes a game, as he def would've been on a less loaded team, you get...: 21 ppg, 14 rpg, 2.5 bpg. As a college freshman. Seriously, talent is talent, and Cousins could easily become one of the top 3 big men in the league.

As is, DeMarcus stats, 15 ppg, 10 rpg in 23.5 mpg with 56% shooting and 60% from the line.

Here's another big man as a freshman from the same conference, back in the day: 14 ppg, 12 rpg, in 28.2 mpg on 57% shooting, 56% from the line. Wanna guess who that fella is? A kid from LSU named Shaquille O'Neal.

DeMarcus Cousins is an absolute STUD. Give the kid a break, he's 19 years old, he has plenty of time to mature. I'm sure growing up with very well grounded peers like Durant, Westbrook, Green and Harden will be good for his emotional development. And as far as talent? Kid has it in SPADES. He absolutely physically dominated college basketball as a freshman. He's a beast. Putting that kid in a Thunder jersey would make our talent level positively unfair.

I should amend my list:

I wouldn't do "no further change to the roster",

uness you got at least one good big guy and hopefully 2 and you felt you would get enough from player development or other tweaks to get a more consistently good offense.

If they felt that way, then no further roster change may be the appropriate answer or at least an acceptable answer. But only if you felt good about these other changes or developments.

f5alcon :

Jax Raging Bile Duct :@Keith

I’ll pee my pants in public if we draft either cousins or favors.

http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=1559

If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis...hahaha.

@Keith

Seems like we are pretty close but I am cooler on Jefferson.

I haven't really thought about an Ibaka trade because I really don't expect it but then again if a truly fabulous offer required it I guess I would look it.

Jax Raging Bile Duct :@Keith

I’ll pee my pants in public if we draft either cousins or favors.

http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=1559

@shiki=4 seasons
Depends on what we are willing to give up/take on. If we are willing to take Brand, the #2 becomes a real possibility. If we are willing to trade more than one of Green/Harden/Ibaka, the 3 and 4 might be available. If we are willing to take on Garcia, Udrih, or Nocioni, the 5th pick becomes available. If we are willing to take on Maggette, the 6th pick becomes available.

@Crow
I like those distinctions.

Would do and likely available:
- Trade minor assets for 10-14 pick

Would do but likely unavailable:
- Acquire Brand in order to land #2 pick
- S&T lesser assets for a max contract Bosh

Would probably do, depending on price:
- Acquire David Lee
- Trade for Al Jefferson/Kevin Love
- Trade for defensive/rebounding center w/o using major assets

Probably wouldn't do, but depends on offer/price:
- Extend Green this offseason
- Trade Harden or Ibaka
- Trade down

Would not do:
- Stand pat through 2011 trade deadline.

Which pick we can get?I dont think Cousins drops under 6#.If we cannot get very high pick,Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe is good.

Would most likely do

*Trading cap space/minor assets for a late lottery pick

Something else, anything else to get a better big man

Would consider

*Acquire David Lee

*Acquire Sam Dalembert/Andris Biedrins/Defensive Big w/o losing a major asset

Would not do, unless other terms made it lopsided

*Acquire Al Jefferson / Trade James Harden

Don't expect to have chance to do / unlikely to be a greeat deal but it would depend on price

*Acquire Elton Brand + #2 Pick

Would not do

No changes

Agreed! It will be a guy who is long with good footwork!! Interior passer with good hands would be ideal- Think Marc Gasol!!

@Bouzi

It'd be nice to lock up Green to a contract like that but I just don't see it happening. He's represented by David Falk and will probably, at the very least, be looking at deals given to Trevor Ariza, Marvin Williams, et. al and starting points for negotiation.

Our only ground we have to stand on is that he was awful in the playoffs (i.e. no Ariza factor) and he's a couple years older than Williams was when he was extended. A Full MLE deal is probably the best we will be able to get away with..

Okay okay okay ...
Does anybody remember Presti saying he is building his team in a non-traditional way. His goal is to "build a team made entirely of long athletic guys who can handle the ball" with strenght and finesse(sp?). He is looking for more of a Pau Gasol type pro. That's why he traded for Mullens!!! Now look at these options and think about which of these follow that mindset. We are NOT the traditional type of team.

So with that in mind I think if we trade up we go for Sanders ..... David Lee is a perfect fit becuase he can stretch the court. Green is not a starter but wil still be re-signed for an incentive based 22/4-5 type of contract ...

I just don't see how you guys think we will try to make a huge free agent signing or a high trade up.....

I prefer, if we are going to move up, to get Cole Aldrich or Greg Monroe. I'm not too sure about Favors because of our glut at PF, and I'm not too sure about Cousins because of attitude/motivation concerns.

I still like Babbitt.

I'm so happy Presti is the GM of this team and not any of you guys :)

I live in LA and the only Thunder player Jackson gave any credit to was Ibaka...he was glowing in his praise. Rarely does that happen.

Also, watching Presti pretty closely the last 3 years, he may not even be
targeting a center...I think he likes Henry.

"it wasn’t but half a year ago everyone was convinced RW wasn’t even a point guard and should move to shooting guard his more “natural position”."

exactly. people in their right minds should have no idea how many of these players will turn out in 4 or 5 years. Many people had strong but incorrect opinions of westbrook this exact time last year (trading him in favor of rubio? no thank you sirs). i would be very surprised of anyone like green or ibaka were traded.

I forgot

*Trading cap space/minor assets for a late lottery pick

*None changes

Out of curiosity...

How would you rank the various trade/FA options that we've discussed here the past few weeks?

*Acquire David Lee

*Acquire Al Jefferson / Trade James Harden

*Acquire Sam Dalembert/Andris Biedrins/Defensive Big w/o losing a major asset

*Acquire Elton Brand + #2 Pick

If I missed one you like, feel free to add it, but I would like to see most of the various options ranked.

@The Hitman
Durant and Green (the original foundations of the team) had no defense their first two years, and Durant arguably is only just now learning teamwork. Let's not pretend Presti has really been doing anything but pick the guys he thought were the best players and on-court fits for the team. Character is important, but do you really think he would have picked Westbrook over Beasley had he landed the 2nd pick in 2008?

This idea that only an exact match to a fantastical version of the perfect player is the guy Presti is after is ridiculous. Presti's goal is to build a champion, not a day care.

@DXL
Camby played for the Nuggets between 2002 and 2008. The Nuggets made the playoffs 5 times in that span and Camby was even DPOY in 2007. He's never made an all-star game. If you don't score or have your own highly profitable shoe line, voters don't care about you.

@justin
Perfect examples. Hayward and Camby weren't on playoff contenders most of last year. If they had been they would have at least been considered for all-star status; they both put up strong stats. Okafor's been on losers his whole career, same deal for him.

Chris Anderson is a role player on a very good team--he only plays 22 minutes a game. I'm expecting Ibaka to play 30 to 35 minutes a game next year. We'll see.

@RedDirt717

Your post is on the money. Presti has always stated that he wants sustainable success. That philosophy is underpinned by some key planks - a core built around Durant who can grow with him, player length, a demonstrated record of hard work, good character and focussed improvement and a commitment to team work and defence. For different reasons, Dalembert and Cousins in my view don't qualify although I'd be prepared to hold fire on Cousins as it's hard to judge a player's character from a far. Presti has pulled all the right reins so far. I trust him to do so in this draft.

Getting lucky and hitting on one spin of the roulette wheel (Westbrook) doesn't mean it's a good strategy in the long run.. :)

Though if one of Harden or Ibaka progress anything like some are thinking we'd be in good shape.

@RedDirt717

very good point on Westbrook.

DXL :@justin Playoffs, or playoff contention, a strong de facto requirement for all-star status. Philly was awful.

Brendan Haywood? Marcus Camby? Emeka Okafor? Chris Andersen was close.

Blocking shots and rebounding = role player unless you're ungodly at those things.

@justin
Playoffs, or playoff contention, a strong de facto requirement for all-star status. Philly was awful.

I'm Glad Presti is our GM and not a some of you guys chasing some unproven flavors of the week.

Yah let's trade both our primary power forwards, one being a productive swing man that can play 3 different positions and is one of the team captains and another player that may have been one of the fastest improved players in the league as far as a 19-20 year old that doesn't understand English can be. That also ate up the lakers in the paint as a power forward and top 20 shot blocker for a guy thats unproven on the NBA level and has a very high probablility to be a cancer in the locker room. Brilliant.

If presti is shooting for a move up I'd be shocked if it wasn't with NO, grab a certain Serbian three point specialist's bad contract and a shot at an OKC native who is passionate and likeable (also frequents Twitter, seems to be proud of his OKC roots)

The team philosophy is not to sell the farm to get out of now, seems a few of you would be willing to trade everyone on the team except KD or westbrook or the flavor of the week, it wasn't but half a year ago everyone was convinced RW wasn't even a point guard and should move to shooting guard his more "natural position".

This isn't a microwave folks, it's a slow cooked BBQ.

@DXL

Sam Dalembert was 3rd in TRB% and 7th in BLK/g this season.

It's gonna take more than what you're talking about to get Ibaka some All Star consideration. We know he will rebound some and block shots, but there are lots of guys in this league who can do that. Ibaka has to get some kind of offensive game or significantly improve his interior man to man defense to warrant any 'star' consideration.

@Mark!

I like that... Let's do that

I'll say right now, if Ibaka is free of major injury next year I'd be shocked if he isn't top 10 in the league in blocks per game and top 15 in rebounds per game. If he puts up those kinds of numbers, and if the Thunder is a playoff team, then Ibaka would deserve all-star consideration.

Brooks loves him and he's going to get a lot of minutes to fulfill the promise of his Per40 numbers.

@Keith

I get that... I just don't know that I would want to give up Green (for his leadership and Durant friendship) and Ibaka (for his energy and fan base love) for Cousins with his off the court issues

Mike :
What people “want” and assuming any and all likely/possible trades

Westbrook
Harden
Durant
David Lee
Krstic

w/ Ibaka getting serious burn off the bench (~30 MPG) and Krstic slowly phased out as we develop a defensive big we get through the draft (Alabi, Orton, Whiteside, etc.)

@Mike
Ibaka is proven to be a decent backup. Crow could tell you how is on-off court numbers don't say that he was that much of a boon to the team though. He has proven he's willing to work and has some NBA skills. In that sense, you are absotively posolutely correct.

But the whole reason Favors and Cousins are so highly rated is because they, too, have proven some NBA skills. No one in the draft has played the NBA game to this point, but there's not a single team in the league that would trade a top 3 pick for Ibaka alone.

But Ibaka is proven to some degree - we have seen him play against NBA talent... Favors or Cousins still have to get past that whole bust factor...

@Keith

Hahahaha

@DXL

agreed on Ibaka

DXL :@Kev Isn’t Ibaka already a productive NBA player? There are more than 400 players in the NBA. In terms of rebounds per game, he was the 61st best. EVERY player ahead of him on the list played more minutes.
In terms of blocks per game, Ibaka was 20th in the league. Pretty good for a rookie.

sorry - wrong wording - I should have said starter . . .

@DXL

He's productive in his role.. also he's a bench player who played mostly against subs. We all like Ibaka. But let's be realistic about him, he's not the same kind of prospect as Favors or Cousins.

@Kev
Isn't Ibaka already a productive NBA player? There are more than 400 players in the NBA. In terms of rebounds per game, he was the 61st best. EVERY player ahead of him on the list played more minutes.

In terms of blocks per game, Ibaka was 20th in the league. Pretty good for a rookie.

@Mike
Oh man, the players I want as long as it is within the realm of possibility (not probability).

PG - Westbrook
SG - Harden
SF - Durant
PF - Bosh (free agent)
C - Cousins (3rd pick trading Green and Ibaka)

Boom! 100% possible, .000000001% likely.