Daily Thunder.com

@DXL

he's also been hurt 2 of the 3 years he was at FSU which is very concerning IMO.

I actually think that Thunder hat is the best one I have seen. It looks retro which is fun for a team in it's 3rd year...

@DXL
I think this is a case where there's so much uncertainty surrounding Alabi's numbers (because of the ankle injury) that they're as good as useless. It'd be one thing if we had no other information on the kid other than his stats and his combine numbers, but the team has a veritable mountain of other evidence that will inform their draft pick: four years of college games on tape, first-hand scouting reports, workouts, interviews, etc.

@DXL
i think we might still take alabi if he falls to 32 though, and he cant jump worse then krstic

Sure, it's possible the ankle surgery and Alabi's awful combine #'s are causally related. But it's also possible his combine #'s are related to his lack of rebounding production. It's hard to put up great rebounding stats if you can't jump, move laterally quickly, or sprint outside of your zone for loose balls.

@justin
Alabi's combine testing #'s are historically bad. In the Draftexpress measurements database there are no successful NBA centers with a vertical leap lower than 26". Only 3 centers have ever run slower than Alabi's 3.7 sec in the 3/4 sprint. Only 6 centers have ever had a slower agility drill than Alabi's 13.2 sec (obviously none of them turned out to be good players).

Did the ankle surgery affect Alabi's bench-pressing? His 10 reps is also far below average for a center. This guy didn't produce in college (historically bad rebounding #'s for a college center), is 22 (no upside), and isn't even a good athlete. Why exactly would he be a good draft pick???

"What the Thunder’s draft hat will look like. Obviously the question is, who will be wearing one?"

Answer: Not me.

Another fun team to throw out there just because everything is hypothetical and we won't know until something actually does happen or draft night comes would be the Knicks. They could just as easily trade Eddy Curry's huge expiring contract into that trade instead of us and take back Elton Brand with whom they'd be more than pleased to have I'm sure because he's obviously better than Curry. By doing such a thing they could essentially just ask for one of Minnesota's 1st round picks so as to actually have a pick in the draft this year to pair alongside whoever they sign as FAs. In other words they could be the third team and have a chip that is worth a ton of money in Curry, who then gives whatever team he ends up on money to go after a FA in next summers FA pool which isn't going to be horrible. And a team like the Wolves is waiting until at least the following year because of Rubio anyway so it doesn't hurt them and they're not on the book long term either.

Keith :@Paul

Miami is in win-now mode. If they aren’t, then Wade walks, and that is the end regardless. Wade would never allow the team to trade for Cousins/Favors/Turner over trying to buy Bosh/Amare/Boozer. So the whole Beasley thing is moot. Although one other thing, Beasley DOESN’T have his head on straight. There is a reason they are considering trading him just for cap space. Beasley is more high profile right now for being a bad pick, whereas many people call Green a core player on a good team.

ESPN's Chris Sheridan had this to say about Beasley, "There are two teams that I believe might take on Beasley in what would be a lopsided, cap-clearing trade for the Heat that could be agreed to by June 30, but could not be announced until the new cap is set July 8: Minnesota and New Jersey. Both are going to have loads of cap room, and neither is a particularly attractive destination for free agents. The solution: Acquire players via trade into their cap space. Example A: Miami offers Beasley, Daequan Cook, James Jones, $3 million and a future No. 1 to Minnesota for basically nothing. The Heat thereby clear all their contracts and get their payroll down to zero (besides Wade), and the Wolves get the No. 2 pick of the '08 draft and a future No. 1. Example B: Miami offers the same package to the Nets, who need to restock and won't find many players eager for two years of purgatory in Newark."

Larry Sanders just had a 28 inch vertical. I sure thought he'd do better than that.

Keith :@Paul

Not using their cap space DOES help Minny because they are losing money as an organization. Also, someone of value will have to be included in a trade up, and it would probably have to be Love (as Philly has no use for anyone else), so they can’t turn around and flip one of those guys for someone else in a 2 team trade.

Why does Minny have to include more? They're taking a bad contract and giving up the no 4 pick. I'm sure they could probably throw in another of their other 2 first round picks. If as you say the price of a lottery pick isn't that great than why on earth would they have to give up a solid piece?? That's like saying the Bulls could sign and trade with the Cavs using Deng for Lebron but just for the fun of it throw in Taj Gibson.

ThunderHorn :None of the big men aside from Favors really impressed vertical wise.

Because they are all friggin' huge. All these guys with 9'2"+ reaches.. this draft has crazy length. Favors is a freak, but the rest of the big guys are legit centers who don't really have any need for high max vertical.

None of the big men aside from Favors really impressed vertical wise.

@DXL
"Of all the big men, Solomon Alabi was hit the hardest. But there's a caveat with Alabi: He's coming off a recent ankle injury and was just cleared to play right before the draft combine. That likely contributed to his poor scores."

Chad Ford also mentions this. Alabi would be a fine pick.

@Paul
Not using their cap space DOES help Minny because they are losing money as an organization. Also, someone of value will have to be included in a trade up, and it would probably have to be Love (as Philly has no use for anyone else), so they can't turn around and flip one of those guys for someone else in a 2 team trade.

Brand sure isn't selling tickets in Philly, so what makes you think he will in Minny?

@Paul
Miami is in win-now mode. If they aren't, then Wade walks, and that is the end regardless. Wade would never allow the team to trade for Cousins/Favors/Turner over trying to buy Bosh/Amare/Boozer. So the whole Beasley thing is moot. Although one other thing, Beasley DOESN'T have his head on straight. There is a reason they are considering trading him just for cap space. Beasley is more high profile right now for being a bad pick, whereas many people call Green a core player on a good team.

And yes, plenty of teams have cap space, but most of them are looking for free agents first and foremost (we may even be one of those teams). Bad teams generally don't have the assets to make a big trade (who will the Clips give up that is better than Love or Green?), good teams generally want proven vets instead of rookies.

@Keith
They're not winning games you're right, it's also true that while Rubio is gone they're not necessarily going to. Which means that their plan to take on money this year doesn't have to be to improve them this year, and Brand is still a big enough name in the NBA that he'll sell tickets. Further, he'll become a big trade piece in a few years when his contract is up much like what Tracy McGrady was this year. To them having cap space and not attracting FA's isn't going to help them so not using their cap space doesn't help them either, using it for something that can help them in the future and possibly now doesn't hurt them, plus it gives them the ability to trade Love or Jefferson in other deals if they so choose as well as allows them to move up to the 2 spot. I'm not sure how this hurts them other than their owner might not like losing money these first few years, which he is going to do regardless.

@f5alcon
Not everything is about money though, and while Green is a great talent for Thunder fans to watch, Beasley still has a little more recognition thanks to his college days and could take over some smaller organizations if he ever gets his head on straight. But that's not to say teams wouldn't rather deal with the Thunder than the Heat either. It's more just stating that other teams do have money this year and there are only so many FA's available so some teams might opt to spend their money or use their assets in the draft before the FA bonanza. I think OKC is one of those teams, but that isn't to say we're alone. For all we know the Clippers could realize Lebron isn't coming and not want to put a max deal on Rudy Gay and decide to try and move the no 8 and their cap space up for Philly and bring Brand or Dalembert back to them and still be able to draft Turner or Wesley Johnson or anybody else they want at 2.

@Keith
i agree about iggy and the wolves needing to add more, but they could offer rubio rights, the #16 pick, they have stuff they can offer

@James
Ibaka is pretty much a jump shooter too. His only post move is an uncontested dunk. He doesn't have the handle to put the ball on the floor or the game to back guys down. I wasn't implying that Krstic gets his points off post up moves, just that he is the best at it of our non-existent post players.

@Paul
Beasley really hasn't been much better than Green, if at all. At least everyone knows that Green should be a SF, I'm not sure Beasley is all that good at SF OR PF. But anyway, I think the main thing to look at with Minny is the financial situation. They can't sell seats, they can't sell merch, and they don't play on national television. They are hemorrhaging money. A team like that doesn't add 15-18 million to its payroll just so another team doesn't get better. They aren't competing with us, they are competing with the bottom line.

@f5alcon
I used Jefferson simply because Iggy has value. You don't trade your best player AND down in the draft for nothing. Minny would need to add MORE for Iggy to be included.

@Paul
green is a better value then Beasley contractwise

@Keith
I dont think philly wants to give up iggy unless they can get another wing. he still is their best player

@Paul
i dont think they would want white or mullens, maybe maynor, but is who we get at #13 going to be so much better then who we get at 21 that losing maynor is worth it? maynor is a solid backup PG

Chad Ford Insider has the combine athletic testing results up. Alabi with a 26" max vertical. So, can that finally end all this talk of the Thunder picking him in the first round? He can't play offense and he's an awful athlete. He's a second rounder.

@Keith
There are also a lot of teams out there with cap space this year, and a team like Miami who can offer up Beasley on draft day as opposed to us offering up Green. Yes, this trade could work, but at the same time who says Minnesota looks at taking on Brands contract as a bad thing? If they know they aren't going to compete "until" Rubio comes over, then it doesn't hurt them to use their cap space, especially if it means keeping us from getting better in the process. They can store Brand's contract and possibly even use him if they want. Even if Brand is worse than Love or Jefferson he can still play their positions and in doing so allow them to trade either to a team for another piece. But that also assumes that Minnesota is a functioning organization now.

Keith :@dorkComparatively I guess he’s right. Green certainly doesn’t. Ibaka is a close jump shooter or dunker. Collison doesn’t really look to score. Nobody on our team really has a post game, but Krstic is probably the best there.@BrettYou
made me actually laugh out loud.

Krstic is a jump shooter. Ibaka is our best low post scorer (which isn't saying much).

@f5alcon
Well Toronto especially if it loses Bosh isn't going to be fixed with the 13th pick. That is where giving up potentially the use of one or both first round picks and/or some of our perspective players like White, Mullens,or potentially even Maynor might be worth more to Toronto than whoever they draft at 13.

@f5alcon
I don't think Iggy is such a bad player that he is worth less than nothing (like Brand). Iggy could be traded for actual assets. Philly would have to like someone at 4 and get Jefferson in return as well.

@Kev
How much better can they do. Obviously the 2 is worth a lot, but how much? Washington got junk last year. It cost Memphis all of Mike Miller to move from Love (5) to Mayo (3), the rest was swapping useless players. Boston gave up the 5 for Allen (good but no longer great) and his gigantic contract. Portland traded Tyrus Thomas (4) and a guy who played 9 career NBA games for LaMarcus Aldridge (2). They also acquired the 7th pick for, basically, taking on Raef LaFrentz.

That doesn't really lay out a precedence that top picks are so totally unattainable. The fact is, good teams generally don't need to move up, and bad teams don't have the players to make it work. That makes getting mega-value for high picks extremely difficult. If a team is willing to trade at all, it means they A) have something they want to dump (like Philly) or B) don't like the value of players at their pick (like Minny). I'm not saying either team will actually trade, but how much better of a deal can another team legitimately offer?

Paul :

f5alcon :@Paul

We have to give up a lot for them to want us at the table,
the sixers could probably do AI6 and #2 pick for #4 and a player brewer maybe. So if we want a chance at getting in we have to offer more to them then they would get just trading with each other.

And you think us giving up Green and taking on Brand plus a few later first round picks is really worth more to them than they’ll find anywhere else?

The sixers would get love, who is an allstar in the east probably. They probably cant get a player better then love and get rid of brand with the #2 pick.

@Paul
yeah i mean i dont think we can do the trade either i was just commenting to kieth on what we would need to give up at a minimum to do it.

I would rather not trade up and sign a FA.

i dont think we could offer toronto anything that they would value enough to trade the pick without us giving up more then its worth. i wouldnt trade green for the 13th pick.

f5alcon :@Paul

We have to give up a lot for them to want us at the table,
the sixers could probably do AI6 and #2 pick for #4 and a player brewer maybe. So if we want a chance at getting in we have to offer more to them then they would get just trading with each other.

And you think us giving up Green and taking on Brand plus a few later first round picks is really worth more to them than they'll find anywhere else?

I think some better and potentially more realistic teams to Target would be Utah, New Orleans, and Toronto. The first two being teams up against the cap, the later being a team with lots of holes that might almost be interested in more picks and a few role players. Though with the Maynor trade so recent and with Utah seeing our potential if we fill a missing piece, that deal might not go through. New Orleans with a new coach and CP3 being a FA in a few years might be in win now mode. So Toronto might be the best possible scenario.

@Paul
brand is worse then jefferson or love.
per 36
brand 15.6PPG 7.2 RPG
love 17.7PPG 13.3RPG
jefferson 19.0 PPG 10.3 RPG

@Paul
yeah the #2 pick is worth a lot and the wolves have a lot of power forwards they dont need brand at all. However green can play SF for them and they can draft turner to play SG.

green+turner is worth more then love for them

love and no brand is worth more to 76ers who are rebuilding. collison and weaver are expiring contracts.

We have to give up a lot for them to want us at the table,

the sixers could probably do AI6 and #2 pick for #4 and a player brewer maybe. So if we want a chance at getting in we have to offer more to them then they would get just trading with each other.

Paul :@justinWhat else are the Wolves going to spend their money on?? No FA is really going to sign there. And Brand isn’t really worse than Al Jeff or Love at which point they could trade one of those 2 for another wing player. Why should OKC being anymore willing to pay it?? Essentially, why would they be willing to trade Love for Green and the right not to have a big contract? When they could just as easily hold onto Love and trade him elsewhere for more, and hold onto Brand and use him when his contract is more palatable to other teams when they actually need something. Moving up and not trading Love and taking on money doesn’t hurt them.

agree - they can and will do better if they trade . . . same for Philly . . .

@justin
What else are the Wolves going to spend their money on?? No FA is really going to sign there. And Brand isn't really worse than Al Jeff or Love at which point they could trade one of those 2 for another wing player. Why should OKC being anymore willing to pay it?? Essentially, why would they be willing to trade Love for Green and the right not to have a big contract? When they could just as easily hold onto Love and trade him elsewhere for more, and hold onto Brand and use him when his contract is more palatable to other teams when they actually need something. Moving up and not trading Love and taking on money doesn't hurt them.

@f5alcon
That's a pretty reasonable trade. I would do it, but given how much has been invested in Green (justifiably or not), it does look like something the FO would have a hard time deciding.

@Paul

Wolves presumably don't wish to absorb Brand's contract.

@f5alcon
I'm not sure why those two teams really need us involved in that trade. If I'm being realistic about it we're giving up 3 picks, one starter, a player that never plays, and a bench player and are getting back a former all-star with a bad contract and injury problems but potential still, and a top 4 pick. Not saying that it can't happen, but Minnesota can absorb that contract and move up to the 2 spot with only the price of the number 2 pick and another medium sized contract (one of their many PFs). They don't have to give up Love for Green, so while as a Thunder fan I don't think this hurts us, I'm not sure why other teams would include us.

@Keith
the only way i see us getting cousins is a 3 way trade with philly and the wolves. a modification of justin's idea

Something like philly sends #2 pick to wolves, send brand to thunder.
wolves send #4 pick to thunder and love to philly.

thunder send green to wolves and the 21st pick. send collison 26th and 32nd pick and weaver to philly.

thunder get brand and #4 pick.
wolves get #2 pick green and #21 pick
76ers get love, collison, weaver and #26 and 32 picks.

One reason Motiejunas is dropping is that he may never come over. He's one of the brightest young stars in Europe and he's going to make big bucks there. He'll only come over if he's picked in the lottery and lands in the perfect situation (a second round pick might be better for him because there would be no contract restrictions; Motiejunas is absolutely not coming over for a late first round salary). He seems to have no hunger to join the NBA--what if he's another Fran Vasquez, a wasted lottery pick who's never going to play in the NBA?

By the way, Portland fans have started to express frustration with their front office wasting so many first round picks on Euros that never come over. There's no indication that first round picks Victor Claver, Petteri Koppenen or Joel Freeland are coming over next year or anytime soon.

@dork

I read that and wondered how many posts until someone brought it up... so glad it was the first one

@f5alcon
You're right.

I'm not sure Presti would do that... but I would.

@Keith
we probably cant trade up high enough to get him. not without giving up green, collison, and our picks

@Paul
Biedrins isn't a strong one-on-one defender, which means his defense probably doesn't significantly improve here. Krstic, after all, was good specifically because he is good rotating to the correct player and cutting off angles. Biedrins is better, but their defensive strengths are similar. The 8 rebounds and blocks I'm not sure are going to suddenly shoot through the roof either. We force more misses, but we also play at a much slower pace. The number of rebounds available is about even. Further, being a good rebounder with other small guys around him (he's not fighting his own team for rebounds) is about the same as here. At his best here, he's still only a 11 and 11 guy. Not saying I wouldn't like him, but it's very much dependent on his return from injury since I don't think his overall impact would change significantly.

Also, the Cousins thing is just idle speculation. Randolph doesn't have the best attitude according to reports either, and that team needs to rebuild image as much as personnel (think a less criminal version of the Blazers). Cousins is obviously the best player, but a new owner with a leaderless team might be more prone than others to passing on character concerns.

I just really want Cousins for the Thunder and am also looking for any opportunity to make that happen also.

@Keith
Even if they take someone different than Cousins who by all accounts could go as high as no 2 in the draft, then GS still isn't necessarily committed to Biedrins, similar to the talks of Philly potentially parting with Dalembert. With that said, if GS is "smart" then if you get a guy who could be drafted as high as no 2 with their pick I think they do it regardless of Cousins attitude. With Curry, and Anthony Randolph throwing in Cousins would be a very nice young core. But in the end there is also the question of what it would cost in terms of a trade. Would they simply want a first round pick and a player like DJ White, or do they want some expiring contracts, future picks, etc? GS is in a state of both rebuilding and trying to sell itself so they need both cheap, exciting, but also productive players to use for building blocks.

i dont think krstic has a post game either, really none of our players do, ibaka has good touch so he might develop a post game

I think it is also important to realize that there is a big difference between playing for GS and for playing for OKC, and that should only help his defensive numbers where he was already averaging around 8 reb and 1+ blks per game in 25 mins. Granted he isn't the greatest FT shooter in the world, but if other teams are willing to get their bigs in foul trouble the way they do against Dwight Howard, and the way Durant and Westbrook get to the line, it cancels itself out. And in terms of consistency it is also important to remember Don Nelson is a crazy coach who changed things constantly on that team, so a more stable environment is good for everyone. Plus look even Darko played decently when put in a "productive" environment, any winning is supposed to be contagious so putting that in a player who has been in a bad situation should help as well.

@Paul
GS is in an interesting position since it is in the process of being bought. The new owner probably realizes that he needs to clean house in the front office and coaching (kind of hand in hand). With the roster such a mess by ideal team standards, and the need for a new image, their pick might be on the market if someone is willing to clean up some of those contracts they have (new ownership may be leery to take Cousins and build around him).

Biedrins' contract is reasonable if he can stay healthy and if he can produce to the tune of a couple years ago consistently. I have questions on both accounts.

@Paul

I was a fan of getting Biedrins last year, but the meltdown he had in the second half of the season was unreal. I'm gun shy now.