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15 things we learned about the Thunder this year

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This was Year 2 of the Thunder experience and I think we’d all agree this season went pretty well. But this is still a process. And there are things for all of us to take and consider as we move into the offseason. I came up with 15 things we learned about this team, city and organization.

1. Russell Westbrook is in fact, a point guard
I think this was our first and most important lesson from this season. If you still haven’t figured this out, then maybe this basketball fan-ship thing isn’t for you. Westbrook isn’t just a point guard, but he’s one of the bestpoint guards. How’s that for a leap? He went from project to star in really, just three months. The player we saw in November compared to the player that the Lakers feared more than any other were only similar because they both wore No. 0.

Westbrook began to develop a deadly mid-range game and once he extends out to a semi-consistent 3-point shot where at least has to be honored, he’ll be unguardable. No one will be able to stay in front of him and prevent his trek to the paint. He’ll drive, dish, score, pass, create – he’ll be one of the most dynamic offensive talents in the league. Someone described as LeBron but three inches shorter and 70 pounds lighter. I think that’s a pretty fair description when you really think about it. Westbrook is the kind of player that won’t averaged 10 assists-plus season in and season out. But he’s a threat to go 20-8-6 (points, assists, rebounds) for a good long while, all while he improves himself on the defensive end.

A friend of mine had an interesting point: In the future, Westbrook, not Durant, will likely be the player teams gameplan to stop. I think that’s really what the Lakers did after Game 4. Because if Westbrook is trucking, the whole team is a completely different animal. Don’t get me wrong, Durant is the unquestioned star and leader. But Westbrook is the engine that makes the car run.

2. James Harden was the right pick
Actually, some may still not agree on this. But I think much like the Westbrook pick in 2008, this one will have a chance to soon prove to be brilliant. He was the fit. Everything about him worked well with this roster. He’s unselfish. He can create. He can shoot. He can score. Yes, his rookie numbers weren’t eye-popping and just shooting barely above 40 percent isn’t great. But there’s reason for it. Harden shot just 47 percent at the rim. That number WILL go up. He’ll learn to absorb contact, slow down and finish. He was fantastic at that during summer league, but that was because he wasn’t playing against NBA bodies. So once he catches up to the speed and physicality of the game, he’ll be an outstanding finisher. I’m convinced.

In his rookie campaign, Harden averaged 9.9 ppg and shot 37.5 percent from 3. He improved his defense dramatically and at times, showed flashes of being a true creator. I don’t know if it’s in the cards to start him next year, but the guy has serious ability. Don’t get hung up on his rookie year. He played a role and did it extremely well. He was consistent for much of the year in just 23 minutes a game. And we saw his importance when OKC struggled offensively without him when he was out with that hamstring injury. Just like everything else, let him develop and you’ll be rewarded.

3. Oklahoma City is legit
We already knew this. But now the world knows. This is a real NBA city. The fans showed it off in the three games at home with and impressed everyone. You have no idea how much positive buzz this generated about OKC. Now other crowds are being compared to Loud City, with writers expressing disappointment because the atmosphere couldn’t live up to the one in the Ford Center.

During the playoffs, Thunder fans consistently stood for the duration of the game. Gone were most of the in-game PA stuff because the crowd was making enough noise on their own. And there was no difference between the first quarter and the fourth quarter. Everyone was invested, everyone cared.

Obviously the intensity was raised in the playoffs, but it’s not like Thunder fans slacked much during the regular season either. But I don’t know if we’ll be able to duplicate this type energy, excitement and emotion because next year it won’t be as new and fresh. I love that us Thunder fans are new to the party and that we act like it. People have said we’re the loudest crowd but not the most knowledgeable. If that means we cheer at inappropriate times, I hope we stay dumb. I love the fact that we don’t fit the NBA arena mold. And I hope that never changes.

Entitlement and satisfaction will happen to some degree as we move on. This is new. It’s fun. It’s exciting. In Year 8, we’ll have seen and done this all before. Hopefully we’ll all be battle-tested playoff fans. But despite that, I hope we always hang on to that unbridled enthusiasm and sense of spirit. I think we will. I hope we will.

Other than the direct development of the players on the floor, the most important thing to take from this season was the development of the fan base. We’re in it for the long haul now. This isn’t just a niche thing. This isn’t just some little hobby we’re all wasting our time with while we wait for football season. We’re invested.We care. I heared three older women probably around the age of 60 talking in a store the other day. They were talking about Game 5 and how “we got our butts kicked.”

This run established the fan base. Honestly, a fervent, enthusiastic fanbase is as important to sustaining the life of the franchise as it was for the success of the team on the floor. And I think 2009-10 cemented this team into all our hearts. It turned the casual fan to hardcore and brought the non-believers to the table. The city and state now care about the NBA. People are talking draft. People are talking salary cap. People are learning what Bird Rights are. It’s kind of amazing. This city was already was the best kept secret in the NBA. Now everyone knows and more importantly, we’re here to stay.

4. Serge Ibaka
We saw. We learned. We Air Congo’d.

I could spend 200 words trying to summarize his potential and what he could mean to this team. But I don’t think I could do it justice. Ibaka is one of those guys that truly can be as good as desires to be.

5. Nick Collison is valuable
He finished second in the league in charges drawn. He played spectacular post defense. He’s one of the best help defenders in the league. He made little plays that consistently made a positive impact on the outcome of a game. His contract is up in 2011 and he’ll be the type of player people are split on. He’ll be 30 and likely on the down-slope of his career. He won’t be worth the MLE, which is around what he makes now, but for a good price, I want Nick Collison on this team. He’s a leader, a smart player and he just helps you win. As soon as you lose him, you’re going to be looking for another guy just like him.

6. There are some holes in the roster
But they aren’t as gaping as some might think. These guys are close – really close. I know there’s a lot of talk about that mythical “big man” but the reality is, probably 25 other teams would love to have that same guy. Heck, think back to all those title-winning Bulls teams. Remember their big men? Bill Wennington, Bill Cartwright, Luc Longley?

7. Rumble is an awesome mascot
I was constantly entertained by Rumble at every game I attended. Typically, off-court antics annoy the crap out of me. I’m there to watch basketball, not some costumed creature jump up and down. But Rumble is great at picking his spots. He never distracts from the game. He complements it. He pulled some great stunts this year (the dunk on roller skates was the top of the mountain for me) and showcased serious talent (like drumming with Peter Rabbit).

I thought he won Mascot of the Year last season as a token gesture by the league for being new. Now I realize he really deserved it. People chuckled at Rumble when he came dropping from the rafters last season pounding on a drumset. And people are still laughing, but this time because of Rumble.

8. Jeff Green has a place, but I’m not sure we know where it is yet
As is the case with a lot of teams, there always has to be That Player on a roster. The guy that polarizes the fanbase and keeps discussion going. Jeff Green is that guy for the Thunder. Is he a power forward? Should he start? Should he be traded? What’s his ceiling? It goes on and on and on. Trust me, I know.

I don’t think anyone really has a handle on what Green’s role will be with this team going forward, but I think the consensus, at least within the front office, is that he’s a piece of the long-term puzzle. He’s unconventional, yes. He’s undersized for his position, yes. But he’s versatile, which is something Sam Presti really values. He’s a very good basketball player. I think people forget that. He averaged 15.1 ppg and 6.0 rpg this year. Other power forwards with similar numbers to that: Elton Brand, Andray Blatche, Carl Landry and Paul Millsap. Granted, Green averaged more minutes that all of those players, but the point remains: This team won 50 games with him starting at the four and playing almost 38 minutes a game. He did something right. Take away Jeff Green and you can probably take away seven or eight wins. Five games he made a huge play in come to mind immediately.

He has power forward ability, but might be better a hybrid off the bench like Lamar Odom. Some have suggested move KD back to the two and Green to three. Or just keep it the way it is. I don’t really know at this point. I think it’s still to early to decide that.

Next year is big for Uncle Jeff. It’s probably the make-or-break year in terms of figuring out where he fits. He showed serious improvement from his rookie to his second season. But he regressed slightly this season. His scoring dropped, his rebounds dropped, his 3-point shooting dropped but his minutes went up. I don’t know what the offseason plans are for OKC, but no matter if Green is coming off the bench or still starting at the four, he’s probably going to get at least 30 minutes a night. He CAN rebound. He CAN shoot. He just took too many 3s this year. He shot almost 39 percent from outside last year and was a real weapon. He hovered around 30 percent before getting up to finish at 33 percent. He just had too many 1-6 games and got in shooting ruts. He’s got a place, but I don’t know if we have that figured out yet.

9. Scott Brooks can coach
It’s not easy for a coach to get any team to completely buy in to a culture and a philosophy. But to get a team of 20-year-olds that all want to prove themselves? That’s a miracle. Brooks wasn’t the best in-game coach and he even admits that. But keep in mind, he was a rookie this year too. He’s an excellent practice coach and a good motivator. He has the respect of his team and has built a fun but very united culture within the team. I love how loose he kept the team during the biggest moments of the playoffs. Like when he told James Harden to shoot the ball because, “You were open and it would have been over Kobe. That would’ve made a nice picture.” He’s the perfect guy to lead this team and I think that Red Auerbach Trophy was well-deserved.

10. Defense is our backbone
The Thunder’s success came largely because of an incredible improvement on the defensive end. It was the focus from Day 1 of training camp and it continues to be the focus. The team went through a lull in late March and April, but cranked it up against the Lakers and really showed their stopping ability.

And while defense is going to be the calling card for this team, the offense improved steadily throughout the year. Granted, there were some pretty awful stretches. But finishing 13th in offensive efficiency is something to be proud of. And with the maturation of scorers like Harden, Westbrook and Durant, it’s just going to get better. Plus, I think the team is starting to find an identity on that end of the court.

Scott Brooks preaches defenses and admittedly says he doesn’t coach much offense. That worked out for this season, but if things are going to continue, offense has to become a focus, with defense still remaining the calling card.

11. This team is young
Brooks put it so well after Game 1: “This team will still be really young in three years.” But think about that for a second. In three years, KD will be 24. Westbrook 24. Harden and Ibaka 23. Green 25. The main core of players will still be one of the youngest rosters in the league. Maybe that will put some perspective in this unlikely leap they made this year.

Sam Presti wanted to build a culture that a team could learn and grow together, organically. I think he’s pretty much nailed that. His guys have just made him look like a genius earlier than we thought.

12. KD will get there
I think Durant’s six games against Los Angeles may prove to be the most important of his career. Think about it: If KD plays anywhere close to what he’s capable of, OKC might win the thing. Despite shooting around 35 percent and fighting through frustration every night, Durant brought everything he had. He worked his tail off defensively and kept plugging on the offensive end. Game 3: He starts out miserably but lifts his team in the fourth with four baskets and 12 points. Game 6: He’s 3-21 and maybe having one of the worst shooting nights of his life. But he hits a huge 3 and then a big driving layup to give his team a chance. He never quit, he never stopped working. And another thing: He learned (though he probably already knew this) that he could lean on his teammates.

13. The NBA is a lot more fun when your team is winning
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed last season. Despite the horrific start and the frustrating struggles, I was still enjoying professional basketball in my home state. But let me tell you, winning is fun. I can see why people get so caught up in it now. And I can see why people get so pissed when your team sucks.

14. Being healthy is good
We all know the stat. Four starters started all 88 games this year. Out of OKC’s starting five, only six games were lost, all by Nenad Krstic. James Harden missed six games with a hamstring issue. There were some injuries down the bench like with Kyle Weaver’s shoulder and D.J. White’s everything. But for the most part, the Thunder were abnormally healthy.

And it’s something we can’t rely on next year. Depth is always an issue for good teams. 82 games are a lot. And you have to be ready to play a week without a key contributor. Whether it’s by developing home grown talent or going out and adding depth in the draft and free agency, OKC just can’t assume that it’ll be afforded the same good fortune next year. It happens every year to every team. It helps that this team is so young, but KD missed eight games last season. Jeff Green missed a handful. Somehow, Russell Westbrook has played in every possible game so far in his NBA career. But again, that’s unusual.

15. This team is going to be very, very, VERY good
Forget cap space and draft picks. The main core of Harden, Durant, Westbrook, Green and Ibaka is already pretty excellent and the eldest of the five is Green at 22. Honestly, start those five together for the next five years and I bet they win at least 45 games every year. But that’s the thing. There’s still room for growth. And that’s what will push this team to the next level. The main pieces are intact. Now it’s about supplementing. Spend wisely, find a quality, productive player and make sure you get a serious return on your investment.

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Westbrook scored well himself but the offense he was supposed to lead was the 3rd weakest of 16 playoff teams. His A/TO was not in the top 20. Fisher raised his scoring some and both his 2 pt FG% and 3 FG% significantly over his regular season averages. There is plenty good and not so good to "discuss"- then and now.

Westbrook is now the starter for the indefinite future. Only thing that would change that would be him not re-signing or maybe multiple first round exits. Ultimately great PGs need to lead playoff teams that win multiple series.

@n

Westbrook improved. Yes he deserved more time and patience.

But how much was he improved? He proved he could distribute better and cut his turnovers from highest in the league to 4th highest. He proved his overall FG% could go up a tiny bit. He proved he didn't have a 3 point shot. He proved he could blow a guy in the playoffs who is almost 36.

no kowtow, no apology
he improved on some things and not on others
but he will have more time and patience now that he has shown improvement on some things

@justin agree with you100% green is weapon in second unit when durant get some rest
Dalembert 28 / Collison 20
Ibaka 28 / Green 20
Durant 38 / Green 10
Harden 32 / Sefolosha 16
Westbrook 35 / Maynor 13
starting line up very good!!! How about David Lee he is good enough for us??he can provide 15-20point and 10 reb for us?? i love to see lee here too......... if get get dalembert or LEE ...OKC don't want any younster here what do you think about our 4 pick this season sir?

@DXL

Foreign measurements have been dubious in the past...

I said before if Ibaka really is only 20 years old then he should fill out some more on his own just growing. He could play center like Al Horford maybe but I don't think he'll ever be a 'legit' center because of his play style and frame. He'll always be a lithe type.

It's hard to deny: Green had an overall bad year with a few excellent moments. The upside is that we found out early he isn't worth the huge extension that he'll be eligible to sign this July. I think they'll try to sign him for about 5.5 million a year or let him find market value as a restricted free agent under the new CBA a year from now.

Justin, you can't just eyeball standing reach! Ibaka's been measured at 9'3", and that's that. These are official measurements--do you quarrel with any other measurements from Reebok Eurocamp in 2008? If I had to eyeball because official measurements didn't exist, I do think Noah has relatively short arms for his height (perhaps why his shot-blocking numbers are low), while Ibaka has very long arms for his height (and a small head, which accounts for the difference between his height and his standing reach).

After a summer of weightlifting and nutrition Ibaka's definitely going to look more the part of a center next year. If he starts, as Nenad Krstic already seems to expect, he's an instant double-double guy, with 1.5 to 2 shot blocks a game. That's all I want from the center position.

OKC gave up exactly 10 points per 100 possessions more when Jeff Green was on the court. I researched this and that 10 point gap is the largest in the league this year for rotation players. It's in the Eddy Curry range of defensive ineptitude.

OKC people have access to this data and probably other stuff that tells the same story... when will the Jeff Green at PF experiment end?

@J.G.

Thanks for sharing that chat with Ibaka. I've always wondered where the comments came from.

Ibaka mentioned that he want to be solid, but keep his mobility. I'm not mad at that.

n :Just to rub in point #1, a part of me wants to search through the entire DT archives and find the many blathering comments about how so many people just didn’t think Westbrook was up to snuff and should just be a 2 or even be traded. The level of criticism for a first year point guard who had a great first season was was honestly remarkable. A kowtow/apology thread by all those people would be great post I think.

At least Traber said he was wrong. I wonder how many other people will?

Royce, that was a good read. You mentioned the main core is Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Green, and Ibaka. I agree. Last year's core of Russ, Green, and KD has expanded.

Royce, isn't Jeff Green 23 turning 24? ESPN.com has his birthday listed as August 28, 1986, which would make his 23 years old.

Agree 1000000000% with #1, especially the last point. KD is the superstar, leader and will be the closer for this team.

However, the NBA is a PG-driven league. With the new rule changes the game has become much more open and up-tempo and you have to have a PG to control things. Obviously you have teams like Miami, LA, Cleveland, and Portland(to a much less extent now than in previous years) that don't have great PGs but those teams lead guys handle the ball the majority of the time like most other PGs.

@Crow

Less shots for Russ / Green more for Harden / Ibaka is a good idea considering Harden / Ibaka are both more efficient...

While the main focus has been of minutes and who starts I'd also like to see Harden move from about 7.5 shots per game to close to 10 no matter what his minute level. And Ibaka from 5 to 7-8. If not every game, a good share of them. At least half the shots probably have to come out of the big 3. Ideally you'd want the guy who is cold to take a few less than he did this season.

Pre-season I'd hope to see Mullens 20+ minutes a game to work him, check him out and check out various combinations with him.

i'd buy that for a dollar...

justin we agree that Dalambert would be a pretty good option, on the chance that Philly would consider it.

Presti has generally bet heavily on length. I expect he would take even more, especially from a true 5.

You could go from Westbrook- Thabo- Durant- Collison- Krstic
to Westbrook- Durant- Green- Ibaka- Collison so that Durant at SG occurs mostly against subs and it would just be transitional use. Or maybe some other variation is an in-between step. To find the best rotation I'd take the best 10 lineups or so and give them a hard look and think about sequencing. I've done that before. Probably better to wait til the roster is set.

Both of these lineups would have Harden coming off the bench for scoring replacement. One would have Harden and Green available for that the other Harden and Ibaka.

Either way you could shift into Westbrook-Harden-Durant-Ibaka-Collison or something with 4 of the 5 if you want or need it. I guess you could use less of these guys if you were ahead but if I am behind I'd want 4 most of the time.

Westbrook- Thabo- Durant- Collison- Krstic would maintain Thabo on the starting SG or even best wing. It would get Krstic more shots (probably a good thing) and maybe Thabo too (regular season practice to get better before next playoffs).

Westbrook- Durant- Green- Ibaka- Collison would aim to take the lead early. Durant or Green should have a mismatch.

Dalembert 28 / Collison 20
Ibaka 28 / Green 20
Durant 38 / Green 10
Harden 32 / Sefolosha 16
Westbrook 35 / Maynor 13

We'd have the longest starting front court in the NBA.. one of the most athletic starting lineups in the NBA... good on the boards... decent on offense with Harden in there to offset losing Green. And the bench has Green to make up for Harden going to the starting lineup.

Thabo cant come off the bench b/c his value lies in defending the other team's best scorer. Furthermore, with Harden starting, our 2nd unit wont be able to score points

If Sam Presti isn't going to spend on a free agent this offseason, I will implore him once again to consider the case of Samuel Dalembert:

A) Sam Dalembert could probably be acquired from Philly without giving up any of our talent. At worst, Nenad Krstic can head to Philly.

B) Sam Dalembert is only on the books for this coming season. Trading for him is essentially the same as standing pat - as far as the books are concerned. With the added benefit of having the inside track of re-signing a legitimate center if he works out.

C) Sam Dalembert is in the middle of his prime. He's a top five rebounder in the NBA on both ends, he's as good or better a shot blocker than Serge Ibaka, he doesn't foul excessively for a shot blocking center, and his career TS% of .560 actually isn't that bad. He's also played in over 95% of his team's games in the last seven seasons.

D) Sam Dalembert would allow us to continue to start Jeff Green another year in a front court more conducive to him being successful. He would also allow our Ibaka / Collison combination to remain on the bench.

Basically, I can't think of any downsides to this, if we're not going to spend any money on a front court player in free agency.

Both involve Westbrook=Durant-Collison, with the remaining spots taken by Green- Ibaka or Thabo- Krstic. Both did well on offense, by a pretty good margin over the current starting lineup.

If the most important thing they want to do with a starting lineup is set a good defensive tone and it is seems like it is and probably should be then the best lineups for that which are anywhere close to politically acceptable are the two I got around to naming:

Westbrook- Durant- Green- Ibaka- Collison
Westbrook- Thabo- Durant- Collison- Krstic

I agree with almost all of the 15 items in the article. There are just a few points I see differently.

sorry.... it was the big lineup of Westbrook- Durant- Green- Ibaka- Collison that was best. Can't see the fine print so well.

Westbrook- Thabo- Durant- Collison- Krstic was second best on defensive rebounding.

Neither of these are surprising, so they probably aren't flukes.

Sorry I meant Westbrook- Harden- Durant- Green- Collison. That lineup was above average on offensive rebounding as well.

Westbrook- Thabo- Durant- Green- Collison was the best defensive rebounding lineup that played 30+ minutes. They won by a huge margin... in their 39 minutes of testing.

Small samples aren't reliable, so test a few of the best more often.

The lineup of Ibaka / Green / Durant / Harden / Westbrook in 77 minutes, for what that is worth if anything to you, destroyed on the offensive glass but got destroyed on the defensive glass. Overall they lost those minutes by a little.

@DXL

Noah, Chandler, and Varejao play on teams that have size at other positions and good rebounders. Chandler played with David West in NOH and not with Gerald Wallace / Boris Diaw in CHA. Noah played with Ty Thomas last year and this year with Taj Gibson. Varejao has Shaq, Illgauskas, Hickson, and LeBron, all guys who take up space in the paint on the boards.

Ibaka would be alone with Green, Durant, Harden, and Westbrook. This is a reason Ibaka / Collison works - those guys both take up space in the paint and we get rebounds. With just Ibaka out there.. he'd have to have a Dwight Howard-esque improvement in the paint to fight for boards because Green and Durant sure aren't consistent with that.

It could happen.. we don't know what Ibaka wants to do or how he'll look next season.. but I don't expect much improvement from Green on the rebounding front, or Durant just yet. We need to GET AWAY from our guards having to crash the boards...

KG had the best handle of anyone 7' or over in league history, Serge is butter fingers at this point...

Clark mentioned a lineup of Ibaka / Green / Durant / Harden / Westbrook. I can't imagine how this lineup could work on the boards. Sure, our guards rebound the ball well, but that's a problem for this team. We don't get back on defense well enough because our guards crash the boards.

Ibaka / Green / Durant is overall a long lineup but none of those guys take up a lot of space in the paint and none of them but Serge gets physical fighting for rebounds. We'd get killed on the boards with that lineup. Krstic isn't a good rebounder, but he takes up space and knows where to be on the defensive boards, boxes out, etc. Same with Collison.

Ibaka's even stated he wants his game to be more of a PF game. He's not looking to gain weight, and he even plays more like a finesse guy with his jump hooks and soft put backs.

Noah, Chandler and Varejao don't have back to the basket or face-up post skills! They are limited offensive players but they are energy guys who set picks and fight like crazy for offensive rebounds. That's good enough to win in the NBA. Serge already is that kind of energy guy but he's shown flashes of face-up shooting and driving ability that one day, with lots and lots of work, could bear comparison with an amazing talent like KG.

@Peter
we were bottom 1/3 of the league in defensive rebounding. we were not making it up. Also harden cannot defend a good number of 3s, green could provide scoring off the bench if he was there full time he could play matchups at 2,3,4

About Jeff Green... I still like him in the starting lineup. I don't mind the rebounds, cause guys like Russ/Thabo/KD make up for that. I don't think there's a better trio of rebounders at those positions in the league. Maybe it's what makes him a little complacent about getting after the boards. I don't know. The thing that worries me is that he doesn't look to drive enough. Like you said Royce, he shoots too many outside shots. If he shot 6% points better, then this isn't a big deal. But he doesn't.

My recommendation for the starting lineup: have Harden and Ibaka replace Kristic and Thabo. Thabo still has a place, I just think it's more as a 2/3 off the bench. Have him play at the 2 when Harden's out, and at the 3 when KD's out (for whom we have no legit back-up, other than Green). There's at least 25 min a night there for him. I just think that, defensively, we're much better off with Ibaka in there than Nenad. And I think his presence will help cover up many of Jeff's deficiencies (rebounds, help D, interior toughness) while allowing his strengths to shine through (pick n' rolls on offense, playing more on the outside, driving to the hoop). I just don't think Nenad is the right guy to play along side a guy like Green. I think he could be the guy who plays well along side Collison, who could be the toughness to Nenad's finesse. Having a finesse 4 & 5 in the starting lineup is not ideal. That's what I would do. Harden/Ibaka in the starting line-up, with a core of Nenad/Nick/Thabo/Maynor off the bench, with guys like Mullens/White/1st round picks developing in the D-League and in practice. We have a stronger starting 5 with a lot of flexibility off the bench. And we're instantly more athletic for 35+ min per game that the starters will get. Let's do this!!!

camby seems to be the best comparison i think just having watched them both when they were young, but i think ibaka is more mobile, explosive.

Other fairly close comparables are K Martin, Odom, Diaw, Milsap, Harrington, Gooden and Camby.

In terms of shot location distribution this season and compared to PFs, Ibaka's shot distribution was closest to Glen Davis and Kevin Love. He shot better than those 2 from every location. If the team needs a mid-range shot and Durant doesn't take it, Ibaka might be the best option.

J.G. :@James Serge said he does not want to be as big as Dwight, wants his game to be like KG and Chris Bosh (PF’s) for the next five years, etc, in this chat:@DXL
http://www.nba.com/thunder/players/livechat_ibaka_...
Off the top of my head, Bynum, Howard, Kendrick Perkins, Brook Lopez, but I think the point you’re missing is that Serge is a face-up post player, not a back to the basket post player, so the Tyson Chandler, Noah and Varejao comparisons are inaccurate.
Serge is most like KG in terms of style, and KG is a face-up PF, through and through.

KG is almost exclusively a jump shooter right now from what I've seen of him this year. Serge scores a lot more of his points with his back to the basket IMO. I honestly don't think we know where he's headed. I really think at this point if the coaches told him to primarily work on his back to the basket game this offseason that's what he'd do and become much better at it. If they told him to focus on his mid range face up jumper exclusively he'd go that route and improve there. I'm sure he'll work on both but he's got the skill set to be good at either. I think Stoudamire is a better comparison that KG really. Both of those guys can really stroke it though. He's got a ways to go to get as good as either of those on his midrange jumper. Like I said though, I think the basic skill set it there if he wants to go that route.

f5alcon :Serge isnt like anybody before,he is a tweener even looking at that stats list, he is a better shooter beyond 10 ft then howard, but isnt as good a shooter as somebody like dirk, or even david lee. So he isnt an outside shooter, but he isnt an inside one either, with no real post game yet. he is top 12 in trb% and top 8 in offensive reb%, top 5 in block%. So he is better offensively then most defensive big men and better defensively then most offensive big men.

Well put.

@James
Serge said he does not want to be as big as Dwight, wants his game to be like KG and Chris Bosh (PF's) for the next five years, etc, in this chat:

http://www.nba.com/thunder/players/livechat_ibaka_...

@DXL
Off the top of my head, Bynum, Howard, Kendrick Perkins, Brook Lopez, but I think the point you're missing is that Serge is a face-up post player, not a back to the basket post player, so the Tyson Chandler, Noah and Varejao comparisons are inaccurate.

Serge is most like KG in terms of style, and KG is a face-up PF, through and through.

Serge isnt like anybody before,he is a tweener even looking at that stats list, he is a better shooter beyond 10 ft then howard, but isnt as good a shooter as somebody like dirk, or even david lee. So he isnt an outside shooter, but he isnt an inside one either, with no real post game yet. he is top 12 in trb% and top 8 in offensive reb%, top 5 in block%. So he is better offensively then most defensive big men and better defensively then most offensive big men.

Just to rub in point #1, a part of me wants to search through the entire DT archives and find the many blathering comments about how so many people just didn't think Westbrook was up to snuff and should just be a 2 or even be traded. The level of criticism for a first year point guard who had a great first season was was honestly remarkable. A kowtow/apology thread by all those people would be great post I think.

I probably should cut Westbrook some slack on the midrange game because he is probably forced into them too often in lieu of other guys stepping up to take the 3 or do something else.

And Vince is right that to keep the defense from totally laying back he has to take some from outside and if they aren't going to be from 3 point range from him a few will have to come from 16-23 feet. But they should be wide open looks as much as possible and only a few unless he is very hot. And even if he is hot sometime earlier I'd rather he not assume he is going to stay that way from mid-range late in the game. Get something else.

Team as a whole was 5th highest on 10-15 foot shots taken, 11th from 16-23 feet. 23rd from 3 point range as a % of total shots. Bump the first two down a bit- if you can without reducing the inside shot rate (by pitching back before it is too late if you don't think you can get all the way in, admittedly a tough thing to instantly decide, but that is the job), bump the 3 pointers up a bit.

Team-wise, I think it is a double-edged sword for Westbrook to push the attempts up. It could help Durant and others but his efficiency still matters. I don't know if him trying to get to 20 points a night even more than he has will help or hurt more. But we will find out.

DXL :@J.G.
Serge will likely become some version of Noah, Varejao or Tyson Chandler: a mobile shotblocking center who, on offense, will be happy to live off tip-ins, put-back dunks, and dump-offs in the paint. The bonus is Serge has a much better jump shot than those guys. That’s why he has all-star potential.

None of those guys can shoot a lick. Serge is 20 and already has a much better touch than any of those guys. Noah is a chucker. He's got the ugliest shot in the league. You guys are under valuing his offensive skills. He can shoot the ball. The one thing he doesn't do as well as those guys is catch the ball. He has some stone hands sometimes.

@J.G.
How many "back to the basket" guys are there any more? Of the younger centers maybe there's only Bynum and Howard with those skills. They are incredibly rare. And I'm not sure a "back to the basket" guy is necessary to win in today's NBA.

Serge will likely become some version of Noah, Varejao or Tyson Chandler: a mobile shotblocking center who, on offense, will be happy to live off tip-ins, put-back dunks, and dump-offs in the paint. The bonus is Serge has a much better jump shot than those guys. That's why he has all-star potential.

J.G. :@James It’s not about measurables at all with Ibaka, but style of play in terms of Serge not being a center (he’s not a back to the basket, post-up, big man at all)…and probably because Serge said himself in his interview that he was a PF and would not add weight or size.

Serge has said he doesn't want to play center or add size/weight?? When and where was this? I must have missed it. Also he seems as comfortable on the low block as any of our other bigs. He posts up quite often on the low block but doesn't get the ball thrown to him very often. He's got good touch on the low block though and he scored over Bynum a couple times in the Lakers series in the low block. He will obviously improve as he continues to work on it but the skills are there.

Crow :
The bottom-line for me is that almost every player takes too many contested mid-range shots. That is what a good defense will take over any other type shot. A quick lightly contested 3 point shot by a half decent shooter will probably beat any contested mid-range shot. A shot inside is the biggest boon whoever you get it- by drive, post play, cut or fast-break.

That's actually the Thunder's defensive philosophy (Brooks said in an interview he did with Minny radio I caught in pregame on an XM broadcast during the season). They want to force "tough twos". It will be interesting to see what our offense looks like after a full off-season implementing some tougher rules -- I think we will see less of the mid-range shots (certainly hope so). I would point out with Westbrook, though, at some point he has to shoot -- and make -- those shots because he has to draw a defender to him. I don't care how quick you are -- if your defender has his heels on the free throw line it's going to be awfully tough to finish at the rim.

in re Ibaka and Green...I find it interesting that everyone here complains that Brooks isn't flexible and then pigeon holes our big men. We will see more flexibility with lineups next year, because the players will be older. I don't think you should be mixing and matching with 1st-3rd year players, because they need consistency and confidence. That's what I give Brooks most credit for this year (in opposition to most of the board, I know). But I think going forward, once the roles are defined, then you need to have players like Green and Ibaka know that matchups may determine minutes a bit more. If you take that approach, then the versatility of our guys is an asset. That said, if we're going to stick with an iron rotation for the next 5 years, we had better start getting guys who have ironclad positions, rather than tweeners like Green and Ibaka. But if you use the roster with a bit more flexibility, you can cover up some of the mismatches we face now and instead create mismatches of our own.

@J.G.

Ridiculous Upside has Alabi going #18, and has us taking Larry Sanders at #21. Which I think either of those players at 21 would be a really good deal. I have seen some mocks with Alabi in the lottery picks though, and that might be the way it works out, but boy if he falls...

@Jax Raging Bile Duct
I'll check it out, thanks!

Yeah, my main concern would be the offense with that kind of combo, especially since I just can't see Alabi being much of a paint scorer at all at the next level. But at #21 Alabi would definitely be a steal if he could develop. It's just that seems to be a mighty big IF lately with 7 footers...