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Peace, Love and Thunderstanding: Judgement Day

The trade deadline has always been something I have followed with enthusiasm.  In the years that Oklahoma City has hosted an NBA team, my interest has been at a fever pitch, but usually because my hometown team was a player in the rumor mill.  Both seasons the Hornets were here, they were a bubble playoff team looking to make a push, and last season the Thunder were trying to build the team.

This year has been different.  With the Thunder as a pretty solid candidate for the playoffs but more concerned with long term development, the team has no interest in making a big splash that could disrupt team chemistry or handcuff them long term.  If Oklahoma City is associated with any deadline deals, I suspect they will be after thoughts to the mega trades that have already been consumated.

Of course, this doesn’t mean the trade deadline will not have huge ramifications for our team in OKC.  As I outlined in last week’s column, the Western Conference playoffs slots are uber competitive and three contenders are going to be on the outside looking in.  What the other competitors do at this juncture could make a big difference in what seed the Thunder have in ,or even if the team makes the playoffs.

That being said, here is my take on what the deals could mean to this market.  (note: check back later if more trades come to light after this is posted.)

Trade #1:  Dallas receives Caron Butler, Brendan Haywood, and DeShawn Stevenson from Washington for Josh Howard, Drew Gooden, James Singleton, and Quinton Ross

As has become a bit of a custom, Mark Cuban broke the seal on the trade deadline by consummating a deal with a lot of bigger names.  With Dallas being slightly ahead of OKC in the standings, this trade could have a major impact.

What kind of impact?  That is hard to say.  Royce described this as “an absolute grand slam” for Dallas.  Dallas is marketing it as a paradigm shifter to the point they refer to themselves as the “new look” Mavericks.  Me?  I don’t see much of a difference.

Multiple time All-Star Caron Butler is the “big get” for Dallas, but in return they gave up Josh Howard.  People like to forget about J-Ho because he admitted to smoking marijuana and was disrespectful during the national anthem at a charity event.  Maybe those things make him a bad person.  A bad basketball player?  Howard was a catalyst in the Mavericks’ finals run from two seasons ago, and as he’s hit his prime, age wise, I see him and Butler being a wash from a talent perspective.

That leaves Brendan Haywood for Drew Gooden as the only part that could really change things for Dallas.  And it will.  In place of Gooden, who is a pretty decent scorer, they “upgraded” to a center who is really only useful on one side of the floor.  Sure, Haywood is a better defender and marginally better rebounder, but mainly he’s a clone of Erick Dampier (except without the post moves).  And the Mavericks already have Dampier–who broke his finger the first game Haywood played with him, so I guess Haywood was good for replacing him.

The thing about Haywood is that until this season, he has always had a reputation for being soft.  His former coach used to refer to him as “Brenda.”  Maybe this contract season is why he has been playing so much harder, or it could just be that playing on the crummy Wizards put no pressure on him.  We’ll see.

But, I’m not expecting this trade to have a big impact on the playoffs.

Trade #2:  Portland receives Marcus Camby from the L.A. Clippers for Steve Blake, Travis Outlaw, and $1.5 million.

This one hurts.  Portland has struggled lately without their twin towers of Dirk Diggler Oden and Joel Pryzbilla.  In return for spare parts, the Clippers sold them a former Defensive Player of the Year to fill in at center for the rest of the season.  The Trail Blazers just got better.

Trade #3:  Chicago trades John Salmons to Milwaukee for Kurt Thomas and Francisco Elson Joe Alexander and Hakim Warrick

On the surface, this is of no import to the Thunder.  Two Eastern Conference teams, neither a potential Finals candidate (something that could only apply to OKC in the glorious possibility that they make the Finals), trading seemingly inconsequential players.

At the point it was made, it seemed like great news.  Chicago had been a candidate to take Tracy McGrady’s expiring contract off the hands of the Rockets, but Salmons was going to be part of that deal.  This trade took the Bulls out of the running for the league’s biggest expiring contract, and made it look like the Rockets probably wouldn’t get a talent upgrade in return for the unused former superstar.

(edit. – Apparently this one wasn’t as official as I thought.  Not that the new guys reported in the deal make any change to the analysis.)

Trade # 4:  Cleveland receives Antawn Jamison from Washington and Sebastian Telfair from the Clippers; Washington receives Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Al Thornton, draft rights to some guy, and Clevelands 2010 1st Round Pick; Clippers receive Drew Gooden.

The ramifications of this trade could be felt much later.  Cleveland probably solidified their championship hopes, which also improves their chances of getting LeBron to re-sign with them this Summer.

On the other hand, it also frees up enough salary for the Clippers to make a max-offer to LeBron James who would at least have to consider joining a talent laden team with a hole at small forward.  If hell freezes over and the Clippers land the league’s best player, their starting line up would be Baron Davis, Eric Gordon, LeBron James, Blake Griffin, and Chris Kaman.  Get a decent coach, and that could be the team the Thunder battles for the next decade for Western Conference supremacy.

The other thing this trade ruins is that the Cavs got Antawn Jamison rather than Amar’e Stoudemire from the Suns, whom they were linked to for the past week.  While this trade is probably much better for Cleveland, the Thunder (who possess the Suns 2010 1st round pick and are competing with Phoenix for the playoffs) would have welcomed Phoenix trading their all star center for a “promising” power forward.  Now, with the odds suggesting Amar’e remains in Phoenix for the rest of the season, we have to hope that chemistry will be ruined by all the trade rumors if we want them to fall into the lottery.

Trade #5:  Knicks trade Darko Milicic to Timberwolves for Brian Cardinal

Whatever.  I don’t see this one turning the T-Wolves around.

Trade #6 (reported by ESPN’s Ric Bucher):  Charlotte receives Tyrus Thomas from Chicago for Acie Law and Flip Murray

All expiring contracts.  All Eastern Conference teams.  No effect.

Trade #7 (reported by ESPN’s Chad Ford):  76ers and Bucks trade a bunch of guys no one cares about and a second round pick is involved.

I’m not even interested enough to figure out which team Royal Ivey, Jodie Meeks, and Primoz Brezec play for now so I know who is getting whom.  I’m pretty sure Francisco Elson was a Buck since he was unincluded in an insignificant trade I already reported.

Trade #8 (reported by ESPN’s Marc Steing):  Houston receives Kevin Martin from Sacramento, Jordan Hill, Jared Jeffries, 2012 1st rounder, and right to swap 2011 1st rounders from New York; New York receives Tracy McGrady from Houston and Sergio Rodriguez from Sacramento; Sacramento receives Carl Landry and Joey Dorsey from Houston and Larry Hughes from New York

Since this is still unofficial, and could still include a third team (supposedly New York), I won’t go into this too much except to say, this make Houston much tougher down the stretch.

Remember how good Houston was overachieving with nothing but role players?  We’ll see if they were actually overachieving or if it was their strength to play without superstars.  Because now, they actually have a proven go-to scorer in Kevin Martin, and they are now minus their best bench player.

In head-to-head, this might actually work in Oklahoma City’s favor.  Carl Landry destroyed the Thunder in match ups against the Rockets.  However, against everyone else, I think they benefit from having a guy they can count on to score night in and night out rather than hoping Trevor Ariza has a big night.

I completely understand the Knicks motivation to make this happen, but it still seems a deal Isiah Thomas would have made when he ran the team.  They again possess the largest contract in the league and it again belongs to a guy who was awesome three years ago, but is now paid to stay away from the team (just like Stephon Marbury last season).  Just like Isiah, they mortgaged the future to acquire him.

Sure, they have the cap space to sign two max free agents next Summer, but I believe they have to renounce David Lee to make it happen, so it would be akin to convincing two of the league’s best players to join forces on a team with the talent of an expansion franchise.  There is no way LeBron James agrees to leave Cleveland (who has bent over backwards to make him a contender) for the Knicks rebuilding project.  And if he does, I think his stated desire to win championships  was drafted by his publicist.

Anyway, back to how this all relates to the Thunder:  Houston did better than they would have if they had made the rumored Chicago deal (Kirk Hinrich and Salmons), so the playoff race just tightened.  Sacramento’s part isn’t going to vault them into the list of contenders–it really just admitted that Tyreke Evans cannot play point guard.

(edit.  Just found out that Jordan Hill was also going to Houston.  Crapsticks!  That helps Houston even more.  Darryl Morey just pulled a Sam Presti on this deal.  It helps them majorly long term as well as making them better now, and most of what he gave up was a player who wasn’t even hanging out with the team.  Huuuuuuuuuuuuge.)

Trade #9 (sort of reported by ESPN):  New York receives Eddie House, Bill Walker, and J.R. Giddens from Boston for Nate Robinson and a mystery player.

Take this one with a grain of salt, because I cannot figure who else the Knicks can be including to make this deal work, and neither can ESPN apparently.  Regardless, this is pretty inconsequential to the Western Conference playoffs.

Trade #10 (reported by Yahoo! Sports’ Adrian Wojnarowski):  Memphis receives Ronnie Brewer from Utah for an unspecified draft pick

I’m just hearing about this, but the more I think about it, the more nervous it makes me.  The Grizz have good scoring in the backcourt, but they have sorely lacked a defensive stopper on the perimeter.  Brewer could play that role, and theoretically, have the kind of impact that Thabo Sefolosha had for the Thunder last season when they snagged him in the 11th hour of the trade deadline.  Obviously, I have no idea if it will be enough to make the Grizzlies serious competitors again, but I see no way this hurts that possibility.

Long term, it probably helps.  Wojnarowski hypothesized that this trade signals that Memphis will not back up the Brinks truck for Rudy Gay next Summer.  On the other hand, a lot of other teams have made a ton of cap space and when LeBron, Chris Bosh, and Dwyane Wade are off the market, desperate teams are going to want to show something for all those financially based trades that drove their fans crazy.  Gay will probably get overpaid by someone else.  Now as to what that means for OKC:  the Grizz will take a step backwards next year.

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Thanks for another great post, I like coming back to read your blog and your twitter updates.

But there is no guarantee Ibaka improves his numbers significantly, other than we hope he does. We could draft a player or make a trade and boom he's out of the rotation much like DJ White (not saying this will happen, just saying it could.) And while most people expect more of #2 picks it is important to realize that without opportunity it doesn't matter. For his career Darko has averaged 17 mins per game that's not a lot of opportunity. If Ibaka doesn't average many more minutes over the next few years are we still going to be all crazy about him? Or will he fall into this same realm of "busts"? (Though he wouldn't be a bust). Also it's interesting that others are calling for a trade for Thabeet because he also is a #2 pick who could turn into a bust given their roster, but everyone here sees his value.

Paul :@Clark MatthewsOver his career he has never been the clear starter, and has never averaged more than 25 mins per game. Maybe he never will, but his per 48 stats aren’t bad especially for rebounding and blocks. 5pts, 4 reb, .7 ast and 1+ blocks for 17 mins of play for a career isn’t horrible. In fact that sounds a whole lot like Ibaka’s numbers which everyone raves about because he’s on our team and wasn’t drafted 2nd overall.

Just to put it in perspective, you're comparing Ibaka's rookie stats to the career numbers of a six year veteran. Not exactly apples-to-apples, and Ibaka still comes out looking good.

I mentioned earlier that Darko's #'s in Memphis are quite similar to Ibaka's this year, maybe better depending on how you look at it. Darko's worth a look for Memphis. Low risk type of Presti move. Kind of like Shaun Livingston. If it doesn't work out, who cares?

But again I'm not saying it's going to be some savior trade, I just think it's funny the Wolves do something that could be good for them and everyone disregards it completely.

@Clark Matthews
Over his career he has never been the clear starter, and has never averaged more than 25 mins per game. Maybe he never will, but his per 48 stats aren't bad especially for rebounding and blocks. 5pts, 4 reb, .7 ast and 1+ blocks for 17 mins of play for a career isn't horrible. In fact that sounds a whole lot like Ibaka's numbers which everyone raves about because he's on our team and wasn't drafted 2nd overall.

Darko wasn't bad in Memphis, though. He was a servicable bench player at the very least.

Paul :@Clark MatthewsBut where has he been given an opportunity?? The Wolves lose nothing by actually playing him right now. They basically get a half season of free tryouts or a nice expiring contract. If, however, he actually steps up into their starting center this COULD be a steal, or he could continue to be a bust and they lose nothing. I’m just saying the Wolves lost nothing for this trade, and could end up benefiting greatly from it, so just the idea of it being pointless seems a bit harsh to me. Pointless would seem to me the reported 76’s and Bucks trade.

I agree 100% on the Wolves motivation. I just think in the end it will be like their acquisition of Gerald Green, a waste of time for both parties.

I disagree 100% on Darko not being "given" a chance. The guy is on his second contract, and with the exception of Detroit and Larry Brown, he's been GIVEN a chance, he just hasn't used it to EARN further chances. Orlando used him, Memphis used him, and I'm sure New York wanted to use him. He's been surly since he was a rookie and every coach has felt he doesn't try in practice.

@Brew
Ha! Perfect comment achieved.

@Sammy

Speaking of Cavs players... I'm sure Oklahoma's own Darnell Jackson just lost any hope of earning more minutes.

@justin@f5alcon

Just trying to make my point that a healthy Powe would have some value on this roster, and if we can get him for basically nothing, it'd be nice to see what he can do.

i would take powe if we were planning on getting rid of collison or krstic

@Sammy
i didnt look these up but i think

player a is powe
b is serge
c collison
d krstic
e jeff green

@Clark Matthews
But where has he been given an opportunity?? The Wolves lose nothing by actually playing him right now. They basically get a half season of free tryouts or a nice expiring contract. If, however, he actually steps up into their starting center this COULD be a steal, or he could continue to be a bust and they lose nothing. I'm just saying the Wolves lost nothing for this trade, and could end up benefiting greatly from it, so just the idea of it being pointless seems a bit harsh to me. Pointless would seem to me the reported 76's and Bucks trade.

jordan hill hasnt played that well, will be interesting to see what the changes do to rockets chemistry, kevin martin gives them a go to scorer but they are not as deep in the front court without landry

Leon Powe, Serge Ibaka, Nick Collison, Nenad Krstic, and Jeff Green.

@Paul

I've been defending Darko because he's young for six years now. At this point, I don't think he has the mental make up to ever be successful.

And, for the hell of it,
Player E: 9.2 TRB%, 7.3 AST%, 1.7 BLK%, .520 TS%, 14.1pts/36

@Boots

Player A: 17.2 TRB%, 6.0 AST%, 2.5 BLK%, .591 TS%, 15.8pts/36
Player B: 17.1 TRB%, 1.6 AST%, 4.6 BLK%, .523 TS%, 11.2pts/36
Player C: 14.0 TRB%, 3.9 AST%, 2.7 BLK%, .623 TS%, 9.1pts/36
Player D: 12.2 TRB%, 5.7 AST%, 2.2 BLK%, .512 TS%, 12.8pts/36

@Boots
Between Krstic/Green/Collison/Ibaka, you can find 8-10 min/game, more if he's healthy and producing like he was last season. He's as good a defender as our bench PFs but he's a much better scorer and passer. He can get you buckets from the low post, and isn't that the kind of player we've all been clamoring for?

I wouldn't overlook the Darko trade just yet. Yes, it's not guaranteed to help them, but at the same time, Darko is still just 24 and hasn't ever really been given a chance to play. The Pistons were in their Title run phase, the magic didn't like pairing him with Dwight, Memphis thought Marc Gasol was better, and the Knicks have David Lee. Minnesota doesn't have a center they have Love and Al Jeff both of whom lack real inside defense. If Darko starts and is productive he could be brought back in as their long term center and mixed with Love, Flynn, whoever they presumably trade Al Jeff for and their lottery pick and other first round picks, plus Rubio's draft rights, they could be a decent team. NOW with all of that said there is no assurance this works out, as Kahn pretty well botched the draft last year according to most people so who knows what will happen, plus Darko says he wants to go back to Europe. But it's still worth noting a change of scenery could make a player better.

@Sammy
Playing over which player currently on the roster?

@Clark Matthews
Powe's last full season:
17.2 TRB%, 6 AST%, 2.5% BLK, .591 TS%, 15.8pts/36

You don't think a guy like that would be useful for the stretch run/playoffs?

@DL
Thanks for that info.

Still, what do we expect Westbrook to make that next year? If we make a move for a big name guy we will have to sign him longer than 11-12 season. I get that this will be affected by the new CBA, but still I expect a large payday for RW.

I just don't know if we can afford those big three and all the additional pieces we will need to come off the bench. And yes, I understand we can resign our players, but I am still not convinced that our owners will allow us to go way over the luxury tax just to resign players. Everyone that wants to sign a big name guy seems to be assuming that this will not be a problem, but I dont see why it is not a big issue.

Sammy :@JamesDude, that great chemistry has gotten them to lottery if the playoffs started today. They need a scorer, and Kevin Martin is one of the most deadly when he’s healthy, with a Durant-like TS%.

I didn't say they were set. I said I don't like dealing Landry for Martin. The Kings played some of their best ball when Martin was out and Landry has been really solid (he's kicked our tail when we've played Houston).

In the case of Howard, if smoking marijuana makes for a bad person, hell just lost all its vacancies.

DL :Continuing the conversation from the earlier thread: OKC will still have cap space in the 2011-2012 season, the first season of KD and Jeff Green’s probable extensions. Let’s say KD gets 16 million per and Green gets 7 million per.
The salaries of the core players for 2011-12:
KD – 16Green – 7Harden – 4.6Westbrook – 5.1Thabo – 3.3Maynor – 1.5Ibaka – 1.3Mullens – 1.3White – 2Weaver – 1
That’s about 43 million. If we add 3.3 million for three low first round draft choice salaries, that’s still just 46.3 million committed (and there’s some leeway whether White and Weaver’s unguaranteed contracts are picked up). I think Presti has until the trade deadline in February 2012 to really use or lose the cap space.

Good stuff. The wild card will be IMO how much Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka develop over the next couple of years. Obviously if those guys continue to develop and turn into lower elite level guys they are going to require more money to keep. It makes sense to be conservative now to be able to throw enough money at which ever of those guys we want to keep IMO. Although we could sign a guy like Camby to a 1 or 2 year deal knowing they won't be the long term solution. Not everyone you sign has to be a part of the equasion 5 years from now.

Here is a trade I would make right now: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=...

This is possible after Sacto acquires Landry and clears even more cap space for them. Or possibly substitute Hawes for Thompson.

Or try
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=...

Nocioni is expendable because of Casspi, and Sacto seems to want cap space.

It's amazing that Amar'e is not going to be traded, Suns fans must be going nuts.

"For the Kings to take Jared Jeffries, they're also asking for David Lee and picks in N.Y., source says. Guess how that's going over at MSG? "

LOL I can't believe Tracy McGrady is going to be stuck on the Kings. That's so awesome. No way David Lee is traded anywhere.

@Sammy

Yeah. Just what we need. Another power forward. ;)

@James
Dude, that great chemistry has gotten them to lottery if the playoffs started today. They need a scorer, and Kevin Martin is one of the most deadly when he's healthy, with a Durant-like TS%.

I wonder if we can take Leon Powe off the Cavs hands for a second rounder...

I may be in the minority here but I don't like the Martin trade for the Rockets. They had such great chemistry on that team and Martin doesn't strike me as a great chemistry guy and Landry was a lot of the heart and soul of that team. I think it helps the Kings more.

Wow, KD's extension is going to be cheap for his value! So, 43.6 million committed in 2011-12, even with Green, White and Weaver. I do wonder how the lockout and new CBA will play out. Will it end up punishing or rewarding teams who lock up as many players as possible under the old CBA?

As I mentioned in the bolts, the very people pushing for monetary concessions are the same people who stand to lose some important players from their team. The goal of these new negotiations are not to force teams to throw away good players to stay under a cap, they are to reduce the size of current contracts so that even if you have a player you like, you don't have to pay him as much.

I can guarantee the new CBA won't force teams to lose good players just because they had to extend their best players now. In the event something big is put in place (hard cap, 40 million normal cap), they will likely leave the luxury tax level considerably higher than normal until contracts signed before the new CBA run out.

Under the current CBA, Kevin Durant's extension will start at 25% of the salary cap, or $13.25 million assuming a cap of $53 million which is what the latest projections had for next season. Jeff Green starting at $7 million seems fair for his talent, not sure if it's right for this team.

If the team plans on re-signing Nick Collison there will be a cap hold until they either sign him or renounce his rights.

The big wild card here is the state of the league at that point considering what's going to happen with the lockout and player contracts. Waiting for the 2010-2011 offseason to make a move might not be the wisest thing to do.

Continuing the conversation from the earlier thread: OKC will still have cap space in the 2011-2012 season, the first season of KD and Jeff Green's probable extensions. Let's say KD gets 16 million per and Green gets 7 million per.

The salaries of the core players for 2011-12:

KD - 16
Green - 7
Harden - 4.6
Westbrook - 5.1
Thabo - 3.3
Maynor - 1.5
Ibaka - 1.3
Mullens - 1.3
White - 2
Weaver - 1

That's about 43 million. If we add 3.3 million for three low first round draft choice salaries, that's still just 46.3 million committed (and there's some leeway whether White and Weaver's unguaranteed contracts are picked up). I think Presti has until the trade deadline in February 2012 to really use or lose the cap space.

Nice column! Agree with your assessment of the Dallas trade. Most of these trade have significant impact on the 2010 free agency market as well, with Washington, Chicago, Sacramento, and the Clippers all freeing up space. Definitely has ramification for OKC if Sam Presti plans on doing anything in the offseason.

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