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With the green and jefferson convo thinkn back to last year and or even the begining of this year I would have been pissed if people were taking about trading green but I can't see green working out for us. We have so many good pfs and in the draft and free agency there are numerous pfs that are great starting role players. At center its disgusting how small the number is that are good enough to make a positive impact for a team at the starting position.. If we can get Jefferson we should do if. I love the friendship that green and Durant have but I would think if presti and co handle the situation corectly the collateral damage could be insignificant.

Green might be better- for the team, if not in individual stats- with a more ideal partner.

That is of course a better rebounding, better defending, big guy.

But it also might a guy he can get picks from and cut around and get passes from- for 3s or dunks. And a guy versatile enough to take the better big man and handle it at either position.

Or if you resolve that Green is mostly a SF then then there are different questions.

I don't immediately have Green at PF vs starters compared to Green at PF vs subs but Presti should and he should be looking at it.

For his long career Thomas provided 16 pts 6 rebs per 36 minutes. The young Jeff Green is at 15 pts 6 rebs in similar time. Thomas 44% overall FG%. 37% from 3 pt land. Green 44% overall FG%. 34% from 3 pt land so far.

If you play Thomas at SF, especially against reserves you can do alright. again at least when he is trying. He is actually one of the better outside shooting big men in the league- if you want that sort of thing.

10 years from now will folks say that Jeff Green was way better than Tim Thomas? They might or might not.

Kev :

Vega :I’m still back on Kev comparing Green to Tim Thomas. That has got to be the worst insult ever.

it really had nothing to do with Green . . . saying that a PF has the potential get 7 rebounds in a night makes no sense . . . he’s supposed to get AT LEAST 7 rebounds every night!!!

AMEN!

Vega :I’m still back on Kev comparing Green to Tim Thomas. That has got to be the worst insult ever.

it really had nothing to do with Green . . . saying that a PF has the potential get 7 rebounds in a night makes no sense . . . he's supposed to get AT LEAST 7 rebounds every night!!!

Of course replace the second Bucks with the Blazers.

I won’t be exhaustive in what other teams need but I’ll hit some who might be looking harder than others to move up in the standings now.

What do the Heat need? A bigger offensive threat at PG and a bigger, stouter big man. Can / would the Thunder get them want they want? Probably not.

What do the Raptors need? To play Nesterovic. They can use Thabo too. What might they offer that the Thunder might consider? They might offer Johnson or maybe even DeRozan. Would Presti take either for him? Probably not. I might consider Johnson but I’d understand if they passed too.

What do the Bobcats need? A PF. What might they offer that the Thunder might consider? Diop or Diaw. Would Presti take either for him? I dunno. Maybe. Not for Green unless it was a bigger package. Maybe White and expiring would interest them.

What do the Bucks need? A PF. What might they offer that the Thunder might consider? Mbah_a_moute or Joe Alexander. Again more likely a trade for White than Green.

What do the Bucks need? A healthy vet big. What might they offer that the Thunder might consider? Maybe Travis Outlaw or Pendergraph or Webster. Would Presti take any? I’d try for Pendergraph.

What do the Rockets need? A center who is tall and at least tougher inside than David Andersen. What might they offer that the Thunder might consider? They probably won’t deal.

What do the Jazz need? Almost anything cheaper and younger for starters or more vet for the bench. What might they offer that the Thunder might consider? They might offer Okur. Do you want him? For Krstic and filler? I haven’t thought it thru yet. It is easier to say no and that is probably the right answer but still worth thinking about- if you were the guy getting the offer / making the decision. Probably aren't going to get better anytime soon. If you ass on that then you are probably standing pat, not getting better at center.

What do the Hornets need? Mainly motivation, coaching and chemistry.

Tim Thomas when he is trying and asked to do what he can do isn't so bad.

I'm still back on Kev comparing Green to Tim Thomas. That has got to be the worst insult ever.

the bench is better on defense than the starters - at multiple positions . . .

PG, PF, AND center . . .

the only advantage the starters have is at shooting guard . . .

Winning with the bench appears to a good strategy to get to .500 and it can even get you to 50 wins but to win big, in the playoffs, your starting lineup has to win more than half the time against good teams.

@Kev
Ouch. That is cold.

Bryan :@Crow Neither Ibaka or Collison can score enough to compensate for the loss of Green when he is playing his game. Green is capable of 20 and 7 on any night IMO.

so is Tim Thomas . . .

The starting lineup struggles every time out of the gate it seems.

If the rest of the guys can get enough rebounds with Green and Krstic I don't think that disqualifies White. If the team can get enough defense with Green and Krstic I don't think that with White would end up much worse. Eventually they need to try it more if they ever want to know the answer beyond current guessing.

For comparison, this season's Nets are at 97.0 pts per 100 possessions. That's how bad the current starting lineup was last season but they decided to trot it out again.

They are winning despite the starting lineup's performance, not because of it, in my opinion. The starting lineup's defense is worse than the team's average too.

But... as I said before, maybe it is more complicated and somewhere in the middle given the tougher opponents. Somebody has to face them.

The current starting lineup did get better than the abysmal
96.7 per 100 possessions it pulled last season. If you are an optimist I guess you could hope it has a similar increase next season. But I'd rather go with what is working better than hope for more improvement in this current lineup. But as they and you wish.

All other Thunder lineups but the starting lineup averages right at 108 per possessions. That is slightly above league average compared to team totals. And way better than the starting lineup.

Fix the offense? Might not be as simple as just reducing the time the starting lineup since that is the toughest context- against other starters. But it would be a good prospect. Probably better than thinking the starting lineup is going to get a lot better somehow.

If you play with Durant, Westbrook or Maynor and at least one of Harden and Krstic I don't think they'd miss Green that much. With 4 of those guys they wouldn't.

The starting lineup with green averages 101.5 pts per 100 possessions. It is apples and oranges but compared to team average offenses that is lower than all but 5 teams. A starting lineup should be better than the average performance of 5 of the worst teams in the league.

@justin
he played well in the 2 games he started for utah, and i would want a PG in return or a high draft pick but if it helped fill our bigger need at Center/PF it might be worth it, however i doubt westbrook would get traded.

@f5alcon

Um.. how do we know Eric Maynor is starting PG quality? He's got less than 500 minutes of NBA experience; his peripherals look good but that's no basis to trade your starting PG..

@Bryan

20 and 7 any night? He barely gets that one out of ten games..

@justin
I am a huge westbrook fan but i would trade him now that we have maynor who will be starting PG quality, but it would have to be for marc gasol, maybe jefferson if they packaged flynn with him, or the rights to rubio and their 1st rd pick this year which is a high lottery pick.

@Crow
Neither Ibaka or Collison can score enough to compensate for the loss of Green when he is playing his game. Green is capable of 20 and 7 on any night IMO.

Only one untouchable to me: Durant

That said, it would take some serious star power for me to part with Westbrook or even Green. Can't say that I would take to kindly to shipping out Maynor, Harden or Thabo either... unless it was a really sweet deal.

They could have 2 guys over 7 rebs if they played Collison and Ibaka more. So changing playing time is another option if you needed a more traditional rebounding design.

@f5alcon

I would include Russell Westbrook as someone I would not trade. You never trade young point guards.

@justin
I dont think thabo and green have the upside of jefferson, he could easily be an all star center, so i agree, if we could get a young center thats promising id trade anybody but durant

I don't get why people are so concerned with 'being patient' and 'development' that they are opposed to moves that would clearly improve the roster.

It's not like a player such as Al Jefferson is an old rental; he's 25 and not even in his prime yet. He can grow with this roster just like any of the other young guys. The idea that Sam Presti is opposed to trading Thabo Sefolosha, Jeff Green, or any of the other young role players for serious talent cannot be an accurate one. You definitely want to build a culture, but you don't do so at the expense of improvement or basketball success.

An argument can be made against a player such as Brendan Haywood, who is in his 30's and won't grow with the roster even if he's effective on the court. Those arguments don't work for Al Jefferson, Chris Bosh, Andrew Bogut, Chris Kaman or other young players just coming into their primes. The NBA is about star power, Kevin Durant's going to need a second fiddle at some point. If you can trade anyone for that second fiddle you do it.

More traditional bigs might make more sense with Maynor.

With Green / Krstic you have to have the perimeter guys helping on rebounding.

Right f5alcon. I hope Maynor is as good as his early time with the team suggests. If he is then he is a very important pickup.

A new 4 factor summary of the season is available

http://hoopdata.com/teamgl.aspx?team=OKC

that should change, maynor is great at getting to the rim

I should say what actually works. I am sure the GMs waste each other's time on one-sided offers a fair amount. They have to do something and that is the easiest thing for the lazy or not so good GMs.

hoopdata had this tidbit: "Oklahoma City cannot find a cutter to the basket when they play against good teams. They are 3-8 when they have less than 5 at rim assisted field goals made."

@Crow
yeah thats not as fun, i like when i can be like lets trade etan thomas for lebron james

It is not as fun as the normal way but if you approach trades by 1) asking what does the other team wants / needs, 2) seeing if you have and are willing to part with that, 3) asking what they will part with for what you are providing and 4) seeing if you'd accept it you might get closer to what actually goes on.

i was gonna say they should get thunder girls to help them practice, then i had the though that i think Serge gets lots of ladies with his french

I don't have all the data right now but DJ White might be Green's only or one of only a couple positive player pairs among guys who play. At +2 for the season. Nobody else significant is more than +6, at best.

@Bryan
Really?

How did I miss that...or was I one of the torch and pitch fork bearers?

@Jax Raging Bile Duct
Well that's boring...

J.G. :
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=ja...
There’s the link, but it’s not quite what some people seem to think.

I tried to make all those same points the other day and got ribbed for it...

@Bryan

Via Darnell's twitter:
DarnellMayberry

When asked about the timing of D.J. White's return, #OKCTHUNDER coach Scott Brooks said the team can use more bodies in practice.

I'm a little late to the party here, but I have a theory on why DJ White was called back up from Tulsa.

It goes hand in hand with Durant's injury. If he can't play his full minutes, or God forbid he can't play at all, it makes a lot of sense to move Green over to the 3 and get White some minutes at the 4 to help score the ball..... anyone agree?

Was this covered already?

@Josh

Don't get too worked up bro. OKC being small and dull isn't news to anyone. Athletes spend their season here because they're paid. No one plays for free in NY or LA.

Our ability to sign a free agent is directly tied to how much money that athlete will make and nothing else.

The only rare exceptions are players past their prime wanting a small roll on a championship team, or when we can't offer more money than another city with a preferable quality of life.

@Josh
only a few teams can offer a max contract, less then the available free agents, somebody is gonna pick money over not wanting to play here. besides the fact that I really dont think players care that much where they play as long as they make good money and are on a good team, unless they are super elite players like lebron or wade and then the huge market means something. I mean outside of LA, NY,miami,toronto,chicago are the other cities really full of stuff players want to do? Is minniapolis, charlotte, new orleans, salt lake city, denver, san antonio, memphis, portland, phoenix, milwaukee, detroit, indianopolis, sacramento stocked with bars, clubs and women with 24 nightlife and all that, no they arent, they have more options then OKC, but not that much more, people don't visit those cities for the nightlife.

@Josh
I'm not sure you read the same article as even the writer of the article gave ample reasons for a free agent being thankful that they landed in OKC (from the training facility, to the team camaraderie to the organization).

"In the NBA, Oklahoma City is considered the abyss. It's the place where no player wants to be stuck...But the city isn't what it's made out to be."

"But Oklahoma City has at least one thing that definitely appeals to players. The Thunder has a training facility unlike almost any other in the NBA. It's where the team practices and works out. To any player who thinks OKC is NBA purgatory, this place will make you thank a higher power than David Stern for allowing a trade to go through."

And not to mention this nice concluding statement from Scoop:
"If this is the abyss, where does the line start?

Funny thing when you become the main attraction in a place that is supposed to be your purgatory, but the people embrace you so tightly you find it impossible to let them down, or let them go. You begin to realize it ain't so bad.

"People always ask, 'Wouldn't you rather be in Miami or L.A.?'" Durant said. "I always tell them, 'No.' This place is perfect for me."

So like I said, not sure you and I read the same article.

Last season, unless I miscounted slightly, 14 of the 16 teams in the playoffs had 2 guys at 7+ rebounds a game and the other two had Dwight Howard and Tim Duncan.

Exactly but kevin says he wouldnt want to be anywhere else so who ever is hoping for bosh in the offseaon u can forget it noboDy wants to play here no matter how good we become

Crow :The Thunder right now doesn’t have a 7+ rebound guy. Durant is at 6.9. No other team lacks one except the Warriors and when Biedrins gets healthy they will.
Over the last 10 games Green comes in 6th place on rebounds per game.
I guess you can roll this way and be decent in the regular season but I wonder about how it would work in the playoffs.

it won't - our team is good enough now to maybe make the playoffs but that's it . . . you can't assume that Ibaka will be a decent starter someday . . . our draft picks really are going to be "lottery tickets now" in the sense that we won't be able to count on them contributing at all since they will now in all likelihood be non top ten picks . . .

this team has a ways to go and trades/FA signings are still to come . . .

Exactly but kevin says he wouldnt want to be anywhere else so who ever is hoping for bosh in the offseaon u can forget it noboy wants to play here no matter how good we become