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GAH! In response to 555, not justin.

For crying out loud, I need a freakin' edit button.

I was quoting justin in response to @justin. I meant to agree with justin and add to what he said.

justin :@555

Kevin Durant was being doubled a lot and had much better man defenders guarding him. Russ was being guarded primarily by much smaller players, I’d say he had more of a shot to score under most circumstances, considering the matchups and texture of the game.

Russell was the only one getting to the line as well. And when KD is supposed to be your scorer, and he isn't able to create his own shot. You can't look at the regular FG%, you have to look at the eFG%. You have to be smarter in your evaluation of who should have the ball.

@555

Kevin Durant was being doubled a lot and had much better man defenders guarding him. Russ was being guarded primarily by much smaller players, I'd say he had more of a shot to score under most circumstances, considering the matchups and texture of the game.

Jax Raging Bile Duct :@555
Don’t be dense. Playing aggressive is the only way to play in the NBA.
Being cool minded and playing smart does not mean you aren’t playing aggressive. You can be aggressive and play smart and under control.
If you want to comment on Westbrook’s play style, you have to comment on it within the context of the offense being run at the time. His play is a symbiotic relationship to his teammates cooperation. You seem to want us to believe that 100% of everything Russell did tonight was out of the offense, on his own, and that’s just flat out wrong.
Russell goes 4-14 and you think he shouldn’t shoot. KD went 6-18 tonight. Maybe KD shouldn’t shoot? Eh?
Give me a break.

No, not just tonight. That's what most of the time, actually. Russell went for 4/14 (28.5%) and KD was 6/18 (33%). Um... I wonder if that make sense if Russell should keep jack up shots. He is fracking 38% of shooting. KD is 45.9%. Um... I wonder who I want to shoot the ball more!? Really tough... Westbrook, PG(38%) & KD, SF(45.9%)... Really really tough if you don't know how to do the math.

It's amazing how losing and over-reactionary, stupid comments are tied together. Actually, maybe not amazing at all.

Anyway, the recap is up. Take your dissection there.

justin :@The
DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring
I AM a dope

Fixed for accuracy

@The DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring

I don't believe the odds of Russ becoming a good NBA starting point guard (in a traditional sense) are better than 3:1 or so, but to state unequivocally that he has no shot is premature and very reactionary. Teams that give up on talent so early like that tend to regret such decisions down the line.

@The DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring

Sorry Don, I forgot that you're the only one who can properly evaluate NBA talent. Your 2+ decades of game watching proves this is true. No one should ever try to talk reasonably to you in any way, as stats and a level headed approach are just beneath you altogether. In fact, if everyone thought like you and acted like you, the NBA would be a perfect league filled with perfect players and perfect fans. What a gift you've given us all.

Go ahead and ignore that stats. Ignore the level-headed patients. Ignore the other smart people employed by the NBA itself who love where Russell is going. Ignore all that, elevate yourself and your opinion so high that you can't see anything else, and type your little heart out about it.

I'll be here in reality ignoring you.

Russell isn't there yet. He'll get there. He is not an isolated player on an island. He has teammates, and a coach, and a system. We saw Rodney Stucky take 26 shots the other night, while the rest of his team took 23. Russell is a far cry from that. A FAR CRY. He's doing what he's asked to do.

@The DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring

You're a dope, then, if you're basing your NBA analysis on such limited sample size. I wouldn't have a problem with your comments if you backed them up with evidence; you state that Russell Westbrook won't be a PG in this league. What's your evidence? I did some research in a previous post that stated that there have been PG's with odd progressions. Though not likely, it's certainly possible that Russ could follow a similar path. Is there anything you've learned in your '20 years' of NBA watching that says different? Do you have any data to substantiate your claim that Russ won't improve or that James Harden might be a better PG? (James Harden had zero assists tonight, BTW).

brooks made a comment that westbrook hadnt taken a bad shot in 2 games prior to this one, he is doing what the coaches want. Actually his per36 numbers are nearly identical to scott brooks best years, brooks shot a lot for a PG, so he is turning westbrook into himself

555 :
Being aggressive doesn’t mean nothing. As a point guard, you have to be cool minded and play smart.
If you keep dribbling the ball all by yourself and running around, but not moving it to create opportunity for your team. You are just killing your teams’s chance on the offensive end. People comment on what we have in our mind. The reason why we have that thoughts in our mind because of what we saw. If the comments are wrong, then prove it but I don’t think Westbrook can prove that we are wrong about his play. He might be playing hard and aggressive, but that’s not the point of it. He went out there, dribbling around and used most of the shot clock then jacked the shots up (or ran into the lane and been blocked) and missed. He should really change the way he play.
He didn’t shut down Ariza, it was just because his teammates shut down the Brooks/Lowry so they didn’t pass back to Ariza.

Absolutely terrific post

Some people here are so unreasonable and want to lash out at those of us that simply commit the sin of pointing out what we're seeing

What the heck do you want us to do, refrain from pointing out the obvious? Isn't the whole point of this site to state our opinions, back them up with reasoning, and then debating?

If you guys disagree with the substance, respond accordingly.

Enough with this "i cant stand people that have the nerve to get mad at westbrook for consistently hurting the team on offense and not having blind faith that one day he will be a good pg"

Believe it or not, a lot of us (unlike you) do not ever see him turning into a legitimate PG, because he has shown he can't be one more than he has shown he can be one

@Raynor

Your insistence on positionality shows that you know very little about the scheme that this team is running on offense and defense.

I would be thrilled if anyone we have playing Center dished out 10 assists. It would probably mean we were running the triangle offense, but that offense has won several championships, so consider that.

I don't think Westbrook is a bust. He has the physical gift to be a good point guar, he is not short, he is ok fast (actually better than average). He just doesn't have the brain to do it yet (or maybe never). What he need to do is, slow it down and think about help the team first before he do all the stupid things like he did last year when he was a rookie.

@555

Don't be dense. Playing aggressive is the only way to play in the NBA.

Being cool minded and playing smart does not mean you aren't playing aggressive. You can be aggressive and play smart and under control.

If you want to comment on Westbrook's play style, you have to comment on it within the context of the offense being run at the time. His play is a symbiotic relationship to his teammates cooperation. You seem to want us to believe that 100% of everything Russell did tonight was out of the offense, on his own, and that's just flat out wrong.

Russell goes 4-14 and you think he shouldn't shoot. KD went 6-18 tonight. Maybe KD shouldn't shoot? Eh?

Give me a break.

The DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring :@ATH

LMAO, I bully people here? Show ONE post from me, just ONE, where I insult anyone

This is an alright example. Even if you aren't name-calling, your tone is usually aggressive and obnoxious.

That is not point, we all like someone average 10 rebounds, but in reality, it must be a PF or C, right? If westbrook have 10 rebounds, are we gonna ask our C to dish out 10 ast? A team means five guys signed with different jobs, do your own job,work together, good and done. JUST LOOK AT ROCKET, YOU GET WHAT I MEAN.

Being aggressive doesn't mean nothing. As a point guard, you have to be cool minded and play smart.
If you keep dribbling the ball all by yourself and running around, but not moving it to create opportunity for your team. You are just killing your teams's chance on the offensive end. People comment on what we have in our mind. The reason why we have that thoughts in our mind because of what we saw. If the comments are wrong, then prove it but I don't think Westbrook can prove that we are wrong about his play. He might be playing hard and aggressive, but that's not the point of it. He went out there, dribbling around and used most of the shot clock then jacked the shots up (or ran into the lane and been blocked) and missed. He should really change the way he play.
He didn't shut down Ariza, it was just because his teammates shut down the Brooks/Lowry so they didn't pass back to Ariza.

Listen, nothing in my westbrook commentary is ever reactionary. It is all based on my 2 decade long religious following of the NBA and my great ability to evaluate players’ future prospects.

Statements like this make me wish there was an ignore feature on this blog.

@ATH

LMAO, I bully people here? Show ONE post from me, just ONE, where I insult anyone

westbrook isnt that bad, top 10 in PGs for points, assists and rebounds, and defensive rating. not many 2nd year point guards have been better, chris paul, baron davis, jason kidd, deron williams, out of active players, he is better then nash, billups, andre miller, even john stockton were in their 2nd years, its too early to say he is a bust

@Jax Raging Bile Duct

Yes but that secondary skillset does not trump his primary skillset as a PG, which is the ability to run an offense first and foremost.

the point Raynor was correctly making is that when a PG is so terrible at what his main role is, it doesn't matter if he excels at secondary skills like rebounding

@everything from The DON

It's great you have strong opinions, and I believe you trust your intuitions, but I don't think your tone facilitates discussion. Being a bully online only makes people stop talking to you.

I dont know why Russ try to shoot many times,if he can do more layup as he can,it could be better

If any guard gets 10 rebounds a game, you let him do it. Don't be dense. 100% of the players in this league would give anything to average 10 rebounds a game.

Raynor :
No one really care about how many rebounds a PG get, that is not the guy’s prime job, even if he get 10 rebounds every game, it is not likely he will dominate the paint. In fact, you do not even need to shoot the ball well. So please find someone with court version and pass ability, let KD do catch and shoot, easy and simple.

THANK YOU

No one really care about how many rebounds a PG get, that is not the guy's prime job, even if he get 10 rebounds every game, it is not likely he will dominate the paint. In fact, you do not even need to shoot the ball well. So please find someone with court version and pass ability, let KD do catch and shoot, easy and simple.

You guys may not like Russell, but again tonight, he was aggressive. Him and Harden and Ibaka were aggressive. I liked Jeff's game tonight.

That play where they called Brooks for the blocking foul and sent Russell to the line, rewind that play and just count the number of Thunder players standing at the arc and watching. What's Russell supposed to do when his teammates just stand there hoping someone else takes the shot?

Also, tonight Russell completely shut down Ariza in the second half. That was his best defensive effort of the season. Trevor had 23 in the first half, Russell switched to him in the second, and Trevor managed 6. You all need to at least give some credit where credit is due.

The over-reactions on these game threads ruins this blog. It's to the point where I wouldn't mind if Royce disabled comments on them. It's ridiculous.

justin :@The
DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring
James Harden has 71 career assists, and you’re ready to call him our starting point guard? You’re nuts.

John Wall has 0 career NBA stats, yet I am willing to really go out on a limb here and say that he will be a better SG in the NBA than Thabo. Surely you don't disagree with that assessment right?

see how your logic is flawed with Harden then?

Also if we're gonna play that game and use your twisted logic, we can conclude that tyreke evans has less career stats than say....mario chalmers, so then it's too early to conclude that he's better than chalmers right?

clarkem :These refs seem pretty bad

Thunder is not going to win any game easy if they keep using Westbrook. He just kill the team's chance to win.

The DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring :

stephen :as far as I like KD,the problem with KD is he can’t creat his own shoot

Exactly, which is precisely why I have been desperately calling for him to adjust his game more to a back to the basket fadeaway or face up and drive approach. I hate watching someone with all his length wandering and floating around the 3 point line all game

This is a crazy and nonsense comment imo. Most of KD's points were created by his own move. If you say KD can't create his own shot, then you would see Westbrook or someone in the Thunder became one the top ten assist lead in the NBA right now. The problem is, when the team is not moving the ball because the damn dump pg Westbrook not moving the ball and everybody pretty much standing around. Then, the good team doesn't need to much effort to jamp down KD because there is not much room for him to operate.
This team is terrible in half court offense, no ball movement, and they have one of the worst (at least in IQ wise) point guard in the NBA. Then, there are way too much one on one play. Most of the time you see they pass the ball is, Westbrook try to cut and then pass to Krstic. When Krstic make his shots then Westbrook look good. But, I don't see Westbrook pass the ball much when Krstic is not on the floor. The only time he pass the ball is he really got stucked then just throw the ball away. He is got to be one of the worst starting point guard in NBA, at least right now. And seriously, Westbrook is actually very terrible in the defensive end too. Man, what a wasted lottery pick they used on him!

justin :@The
DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring
He’s 10th in the league in assists, and 9th in assist percentage. He has tools and might improve; you don’t pull your #4 first round pick from the starting lineup 25% through his rookie year, if you do that you basically ensure he won’t learn or improve.
He is really struggling right now but you want him to work through it. If he does and is a better player for it, then great. If he doesn’t, it’s not like we’re winning the championship this year anyway, and maybe we can go a different direction in the offseason.
I’m as big a Russell Westbrook critic as anyone here, but you guys are way too reactionary and I wouldn’t want you running the team..

Listen, nothing in my westbrook commentary is ever reactionary. It is all based on my 2 decade long religious following of the NBA and my great ability to evaluate players' future prospects. I can tell you with not a shred of doubt that a russell westbrook simply does not have it in him to EVER be a guy that can run a team. EVER.

It's not that I'm just frustrated over how he is performing in the present. I would actually tolerate all this if he was the type of player i knew had it in him to eventually develop into a floor general. Unfortunately, that day will not ever come. He will never be able to run a team.

justin :@The
DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring
James Harden has 71 career assists, and you’re ready to call him our starting point guard? You’re nuts.

but Westbrook doesn't know how to run a offense at all. Harden is a much smarter player....

last year westbrook drive the ball to the paint, kick it out of bound; this year he hold the ball and take a nonsense jumper. His state is almost same as last year, so guess what, I am kind like the way he played last year. IT IS ALWAYS EASIER TO SCORE CLOSED TO THE PAINT, RIGHT?

@The DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring

I think he's pretty good at driving and creating (in the right circumstances). He does need work finishing around the basket, but he's a 2nd year player. He isn't bad as a catch-and-shoot shooter, but he's a terrible shooter of the dribble. I also think he is a good defender and rebounds well.

At this stage, he does not run an offense well. The ball does not move as well as when he's on the floor compared to when he's off. Westbrook on the wing coming off screens and slashing >>>>>>>>>>> Westbrook where the offense runs through him at the top of the key.

I am not blindly optimistic about Westbrook, but I also think people tend to pile on with hyperbole when it comes to him (as well as the team in general).

@The DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring

James Harden has 71 career assists, and you're ready to call him our starting point guard? You're nuts.

justin :@The
DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring
He’s 10th in the league in assists, and 9th in assist percentage. He has tools and might improve; you don’t pull your #4 first round pick from the starting lineup 25% through his rookie year, if you do that you basically ensure he won’t learn or improve.
He is really struggling right now but you want him to work through it. If he does and is a better player for it, then great. If he doesn’t, it’s not like we’re winning the championship this year anyway, and maybe we can go a different direction in the offseason.
I’m as big a Russell Westbrook critic as anyone here, but you guys are way too reactionary and I wouldn’t want you running the team..

only for a game or 2. See if he learns anything.

@justin

This isn't to say I'm not frustrated with the way Russ is playing, but James Harden would not do better as PG. I think starting Harden at SG would help out Russ, however.

Our future backcourt should be Harden as the creator/offense initiator + some SG who can play off the ball and can really shoot

Westbrook must be traded for that SG to compliment Harden or a C

@The DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring

He's 10th in the league in assists, and 9th in assist percentage. He has tools and might improve; you don't pull your #4 first round pick from the starting lineup 25% through his rookie year, if you do that you basically ensure he won't learn or improve.

He is really struggling right now but you want him to work through it. If he does and is a better player for it, then great. If he doesn't, it's not like we're winning the championship this year anyway, and maybe we can go a different direction in the offseason.

I'm as big a Russell Westbrook critic as anyone here, but you guys are way too reactionary and I wouldn't want you running the team..

I Hope we see more of ibaka.

The DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring :

Jared :westbrook bailed out -0 that was a charge, in his last two possesions he got ball in paint and put it on the floor surrounded by 4 players and was stripped then wasted the whole clock and charged. im off him. start harden at PG and leave thabo, at least he plays within himself.its the same shit every game with westbrook.

I actually agree with you 100%
If we seriously want to have the best possible lineup to give us the best chance to win, our starting backcourt should be harden and thabo…….period
And i would actually start collison over kristic at C too

Defintely agree with the Collison over Krstic...

Houston tried to give us the game but we gave it back to them on the boards. Tough way to lose..

Our starting back court should not be Harden and Thabo. You don't take a rookie who has never played PG before and ask him to do that.

Russ just tries to do too much on offense, we all know he does and it has to be corrected.

But it's not like JH is shooting any better from the field right now than Russ. He's also sub 40%..

Steve :
I’m no Westbrook apologist, but I would start Westbrook and Harden. However, I would have Westbrook playing off-the-ball. I think Westbrook is a very good player when he sticks to what he does best. On the other hand, he drives me crazy when he drains shot clocks and takes long jump shots.

what exactly does he do best? what, if anything, does he do well?

does he hit jumpers? no

does he finish around the basket? no

does he create for others? no

does he defend very well? no

does he rebound relatively well for a pg? yes

He brings nothing to the table I want for a pg or a sg

The DON wants to have Harden’s & Ibaka’s offspring :

Jared :
westbrook bailed out -0 that was a charge, in his last two possesions he got ball in paint and put it on the floor surrounded by 4 players and was stripped then wasted the whole clock and charged. im off him. start harden at PG and leave thabo, at least he plays within himself.
its the same shit every game with westbrook.

I actually agree with you 100%
If we seriously want to have the best possible lineup to give us the best chance to win, our starting backcourt should be harden and thabo…….period
And i would actually start collison over kristic at C too

agree 100% - collison was +16 in as many minutes tonight

Does this team really have no idea what to do in the last minute?
8 seconds to get a shot off down more than 3?

Nice to see Ibaka and James earning and getting more minutes. I'm pretty frustrated with a player I can't say bad things about anymore at the moment. I'd like to think this loss was a learning experience for our coaching staff.

I'm no Westbrook apologist, but I would start Westbrook and Harden. However, I would have Westbrook playing off-the-ball. I think Westbrook is a very good player when he sticks to what he does best. On the other hand, he drives me crazy when he drains shot clocks and takes long jump shots.

For the entire next practice, put the Kelvin Sampson lid on the basket, and see if the team can learn to rebound then

omg hayes again and again, never ever talk about undersize crap, it is got nothing to do with that

clarkem :
These refs seem pretty bad

nothing to do with the refs - the boxing out has been absolutely fucking disgraceful

sub players out if they wont do the simple things that 10yr olds get taught.