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	<title>Comments on: Sunday Discussion: The Ibaka Conundrum</title>
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		<title>By: Kirk</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/12/sunday-discussion-the-ibaka-conundrum/comment-page-2/#comment-36685</link>
		<dc:creator>Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 23:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6369#comment-36685</guid>
		<description>I have read all about Ibaka on numerous websites and watched just about every video of Ibaka there is to watch, from when he was in high school up through some of his games in the NBA.  There is no doubt that this guy is oozing with athleticism. 

Ibaka&#039;s timing on blocking shots is flawless.  He almost never jumps too early to block a shot.  He looks like he could be a premier shot blocker once he earns more minutes in the NBA.  And I belive he has a 42&quot; vertical jump, and for a 6&#039;10&quot; guy that is flat out amazing leaping ability.  That is actually an incredible vertical for any player regardless of size, but for someone that is 6&#039;10&quot;, that is almost unheard of.  So he can get up and block just about any shot that comes near him.

His offensive game should come around quite nicely too.  He has good range w/ his shot for a big man and can step out and knock down a mid-range jumper and he can occasionally step behind the 3 pt and line and knock down a trey. And obviously he can throw down dunks and score points off of offensive rebounds. 

I&#039;ve seen Ibaka comparisons to Shawn Kemp, which I think are too lofty of expectations.  I just think that&#039;s too much for him to live up to, b/c that is basically saying he will turn out to be a hall of famer, which is just too far of a stretch right now.  But if all the stars align, he has the right work ethic, strong desire and the passion to keep getting better and if OKC keeps developing him at a nice pace, he could turn out to be something very special.  I do like to compare him to a better version of Tyrus Thomas on down the line though, which I think is a more realistic comparison than Shawn Kemp.  I think he has about the same athletic ability as Tyrus did when he first broke into the league, but I just think Ibaka has better work ethic and has more desire to get better than Tyrus, which is why I compare him to a better overall version of Tyrus Thomas in the future.

I would like to see him bulk up just a bit more and put on another 10-15 pounds or so of muscle to help him bang with post players inside and score more in the paint, but I don&#039;t want to see him put on more weight than 10-15 pounds b/c I don&#039;t want too much weight that it would hinder his leaping ability or slow him down too much, b/c he has too good of leaping ability and speed for a big man, I would hate to seem him lose a step if he put on alot more weight.

Nice article, I really enjoyed it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read all about Ibaka on numerous websites and watched just about every video of Ibaka there is to watch, from when he was in high school up through some of his games in the NBA.  There is no doubt that this guy is oozing with athleticism. </p>
<p>Ibaka&#8217;s timing on blocking shots is flawless.  He almost never jumps too early to block a shot.  He looks like he could be a premier shot blocker once he earns more minutes in the NBA.  And I belive he has a 42&#8243; vertical jump, and for a 6&#8217;10&#8243; guy that is flat out amazing leaping ability.  That is actually an incredible vertical for any player regardless of size, but for someone that is 6&#8217;10&#8243;, that is almost unheard of.  So he can get up and block just about any shot that comes near him.</p>
<p>His offensive game should come around quite nicely too.  He has good range w/ his shot for a big man and can step out and knock down a mid-range jumper and he can occasionally step behind the 3 pt and line and knock down a trey. And obviously he can throw down dunks and score points off of offensive rebounds. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve seen Ibaka comparisons to Shawn Kemp, which I think are too lofty of expectations.  I just think that&#8217;s too much for him to live up to, b/c that is basically saying he will turn out to be a hall of famer, which is just too far of a stretch right now.  But if all the stars align, he has the right work ethic, strong desire and the passion to keep getting better and if OKC keeps developing him at a nice pace, he could turn out to be something very special.  I do like to compare him to a better version of Tyrus Thomas on down the line though, which I think is a more realistic comparison than Shawn Kemp.  I think he has about the same athletic ability as Tyrus did when he first broke into the league, but I just think Ibaka has better work ethic and has more desire to get better than Tyrus, which is why I compare him to a better overall version of Tyrus Thomas in the future.</p>
<p>I would like to see him bulk up just a bit more and put on another 10-15 pounds or so of muscle to help him bang with post players inside and score more in the paint, but I don&#8217;t want to see him put on more weight than 10-15 pounds b/c I don&#8217;t want too much weight that it would hinder his leaping ability or slow him down too much, b/c he has too good of leaping ability and speed for a big man, I would hate to seem him lose a step if he put on alot more weight.</p>
<p>Nice article, I really enjoyed it.</p>
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		<title>By: the_ouskull</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/12/sunday-discussion-the-ibaka-conundrum/comment-page-2/#comment-36671</link>
		<dc:creator>the_ouskull</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6369#comment-36671</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-36035&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Joe&lt;/a&gt; 

Man, part of why Green&#039;s it seems like Green leaves a lot of jump shooters open is because of his responsibility to rebound, or at least box out.  With his playing an undersized &quot;four,&quot; his rebounding responsibilities (especially for this team, with a &quot;soft&quot; center) see increasing scrutiny.  It&#039;s better that he allows a jump shooter an open look (depending, of course, upon the shooter and the situation) than an offensive board/put-back.  

That&#039;s just my $0.02, anyway...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-36035" rel="nofollow">@Joe</a> </p>
<p>Man, part of why Green&#8217;s it seems like Green leaves a lot of jump shooters open is because of his responsibility to rebound, or at least box out.  With his playing an undersized &#8220;four,&#8221; his rebounding responsibilities (especially for this team, with a &#8220;soft&#8221; center) see increasing scrutiny.  It&#8217;s better that he allows a jump shooter an open look (depending, of course, upon the shooter and the situation) than an offensive board/put-back.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s just my $0.02, anyway&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/12/sunday-discussion-the-ibaka-conundrum/comment-page-2/#comment-36142</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 18:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6369#comment-36142</guid>
		<description>It may not pay off, it may be a product of garbage time. But I&#039;d want to know something more about it before the trade season, the draft, free agency and next season. Knowing what works and when with the bench is fairly important.

I guess they are testing the heck out of this starting lineup. I can understand that but when will they basically know what they&#039;ve got, enough to make a decision? Do they need 500 minutes, 1000, or this season and next season? It is a good question. We&#039;ll see after 500 or 1000 minutes if they should be able to answer the question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may not pay off, it may be a product of garbage time. But I&#8217;d want to know something more about it before the trade season, the draft, free agency and next season. Knowing what works and when with the bench is fairly important.</p>
<p>I guess they are testing the heck out of this starting lineup. I can understand that but when will they basically know what they&#8217;ve got, enough to make a decision? Do they need 500 minutes, 1000, or this season and next season? It is a good question. We&#8217;ll see after 500 or 1000 minutes if they should be able to answer the question.</p>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/12/sunday-discussion-the-ibaka-conundrum/comment-page-2/#comment-36138</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 18:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6369#comment-36138</guid>
		<description>Westbrook-Durant-Green-Ibaka-White went 10-4 in a bit over 3 minutes. Not enough to say anything but I&#039;d try it again. Then again. Then again. Then decide if to try it again or something else. There were several other &quot;big&quot; winners in small minutes of White-Ibaka so I&#039;d try that some more in general regardless of who else you put around them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Westbrook-Durant-Green-Ibaka-White went 10-4 in a bit over 3 minutes. Not enough to say anything but I&#8217;d try it again. Then again. Then again. Then decide if to try it again or something else. There were several other &#8220;big&#8221; winners in small minutes of White-Ibaka so I&#8217;d try that some more in general regardless of who else you put around them.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/12/sunday-discussion-the-ibaka-conundrum/comment-page-2/#comment-36133</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 18:45:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6369#comment-36133</guid>
		<description>That lineup that I mentioned that was +11 in 13 minutes wasn&#039;t as creative as some of my other ones. It was
 Westbrook-Harden-Durant- Green-  Krstic, an alternative statting lineup or could easily be the second lineup used in games. I probably shouldn&#039;t tout its performance in 13 minutes but that is all there is to say about it.

Westbrook, Harden, Thabo, Collison and Ibaka has been used about 35 seconds. And went 1=0. Woohoo!  When will they check it? Are they even lookin gfor the opportunity to do so?  I don&#039;t know how thoroughly they&#039;ve thought about lineups and testing them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That lineup that I mentioned that was +11 in 13 minutes wasn&#8217;t as creative as some of my other ones. It was<br />
 Westbrook-Harden-Durant- Green-  Krstic, an alternative statting lineup or could easily be the second lineup used in games. I probably shouldn&#8217;t tout its performance in 13 minutes but that is all there is to say about it.</p>
<p>Westbrook, Harden, Thabo, Collison and Ibaka has been used about 35 seconds. And went 1=0. Woohoo!  When will they check it? Are they even lookin gfor the opportunity to do so?  I don&#8217;t know how thoroughly they&#8217;ve thought about lineups and testing them.</p>
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		<title>By: Basketball for Breakfast, Dec. 07</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/12/sunday-discussion-the-ibaka-conundrum/comment-page-2/#comment-36091</link>
		<dc:creator>Basketball for Breakfast, Dec. 07</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 14:46:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6369#comment-36091</guid>
		<description>[...] of Daily Thunder wrote a great piece on Ibaka yesterday. While I’m incredibly biased and want to see him get all the minutes he can get, the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of Daily Thunder wrote a great piece on Ibaka yesterday. While I’m incredibly biased and want to see him get all the minutes he can get, the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: J.G.</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/12/sunday-discussion-the-ibaka-conundrum/comment-page-2/#comment-36088</link>
		<dc:creator>J.G.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 13:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6369#comment-36088</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-36075&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Crow &lt;/a&gt; 
Yes, I think it will be interesting to see how Brooks&#039; rotation develops and solidifies over the course of the season and what kind of impact that will have on the team&#039;s future.

I&#039;d be interested to see how a Westbrook, Harden, Thabo, Collison and Ibaka lineup would do over a long period of time as the second unit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-36075" rel="nofollow">@Crow </a><br />
Yes, I think it will be interesting to see how Brooks&#8217; rotation develops and solidifies over the course of the season and what kind of impact that will have on the team&#8217;s future.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be interested to see how a Westbrook, Harden, Thabo, Collison and Ibaka lineup would do over a long period of time as the second unit.</p>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/12/sunday-discussion-the-ibaka-conundrum/comment-page-2/#comment-36075</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 10:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6369#comment-36075</guid>
		<description>Continue as is and you&#039;ll end up with no Harden lineups over 100 minutes that are likely to return (assuming Ollie and Thomas are gone).  No lineup over 100 minutes with Westbrook-Harden. 

Just 1 lineup over 100 minutes of Green without Durant. Just 2 lineups over 100 minutes of Durant without Green. Just 2 variations over the threshold with Krstic period.

1 lineup over 100 minutes with Ibaka. None with White. 

This isn&#039;t a lot of data variety  to build a stronger future off of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Continue as is and you&#8217;ll end up with no Harden lineups over 100 minutes that are likely to return (assuming Ollie and Thomas are gone).  No lineup over 100 minutes with Westbrook-Harden. </p>
<p>Just 1 lineup over 100 minutes of Green without Durant. Just 2 lineups over 100 minutes of Durant without Green. Just 2 variations over the threshold with Krstic period.</p>
<p>1 lineup over 100 minutes with Ibaka. None with White. </p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t a lot of data variety  to build a stronger future off of.</p>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/12/sunday-discussion-the-ibaka-conundrum/comment-page-2/#comment-36074</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 09:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6369#comment-36074</guid>
		<description>If you just repeated what they&#039;ve done the first quarter of the season they&#039;ll end up with 

1 lineup used over a 1000 minutes, 
2 near 200 minutes 
3 more over 100 minutes 
and the rest of 1600 minutes used on lineups used under 100 minutes and most of them really dinky.

I don&#039;t think you can tell that much from a lienup used under 100 minutes for a season so at this rate they&#039;ll end the season something decent about 6 lineups.

But remove the ones that have Ollie and Thomas  and you&#039;re down to 4. Remove Collison if you think they&#039;re going to go that way and you&#039;re down yo knowing more than a little about 3 lineups. For a whole season&#039;s time.

It is hard to know much about many lineups but if you do this 

Minutes	# Lineups
1000	1
500	1
250	4
100	8
800	All other 

you learn more than a little about 14 lineups.

To experiment much more with others you have to pull time from the top lineups. If they are strong lineups you wouldn&#039;t want to do that. The current starting lineup is near neutral right now, far better than it was but how important is it learn about other lineups?

Harden and the other starters is at less than 12 minutes used. Are they going to let the season go and test that less than 50 minutes? That strikes me as crazy. If they are waiting, what are they waiting for? Failure? Throw out a number of tiny lineups and you can make more time for this lineup and at least a few others.

If you don&#039;t you&#039;ve wasted a significant opportunity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you just repeated what they&#8217;ve done the first quarter of the season they&#8217;ll end up with </p>
<p>1 lineup used over a 1000 minutes,<br />
2 near 200 minutes<br />
3 more over 100 minutes<br />
and the rest of 1600 minutes used on lineups used under 100 minutes and most of them really dinky.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you can tell that much from a lienup used under 100 minutes for a season so at this rate they&#8217;ll end the season something decent about 6 lineups.</p>
<p>But remove the ones that have Ollie and Thomas  and you&#8217;re down to 4. Remove Collison if you think they&#8217;re going to go that way and you&#8217;re down yo knowing more than a little about 3 lineups. For a whole season&#8217;s time.</p>
<p>It is hard to know much about many lineups but if you do this </p>
<p>Minutes	# Lineups<br />
1000	1<br />
500	1<br />
250	4<br />
100	8<br />
800	All other </p>
<p>you learn more than a little about 14 lineups.</p>
<p>To experiment much more with others you have to pull time from the top lineups. If they are strong lineups you wouldn&#8217;t want to do that. The current starting lineup is near neutral right now, far better than it was but how important is it learn about other lineups?</p>
<p>Harden and the other starters is at less than 12 minutes used. Are they going to let the season go and test that less than 50 minutes? That strikes me as crazy. If they are waiting, what are they waiting for? Failure? Throw out a number of tiny lineups and you can make more time for this lineup and at least a few others.</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t you&#8217;ve wasted a significant opportunity.</p>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/12/sunday-discussion-the-ibaka-conundrum/comment-page-2/#comment-36071</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Dec 2009 09:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6369#comment-36071</guid>
		<description>Harden&#039;s played maybe 30 minutes with Krstic, with the one tried and great lineup( +11 in 13 minutes) being one of the 12 I picked last summer, one of the very few of those they&#039;ve tried at all.

Not much more than 10 minutes of Harden with White or Ibaka. Is he going to play with them in the future? If yes, when are you going to test it? You don&#039;t have to use it but that would be limiting to not and I&#039;d think you&#039;d want to look at it at some point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harden&#8217;s played maybe 30 minutes with Krstic, with the one tried and great lineup( +11 in 13 minutes) being one of the 12 I picked last summer, one of the very few of those they&#8217;ve tried at all.</p>
<p>Not much more than 10 minutes of Harden with White or Ibaka. Is he going to play with them in the future? If yes, when are you going to test it? You don&#8217;t have to use it but that would be limiting to not and I&#8217;d think you&#8217;d want to look at it at some point.</p>
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