Home > Commentary > Peace, Love and Thunderstanding: The Man in the Middle

Peace, Love and Thunderstanding: The Man in the Middle

Thunder Rockets BasketballWhen I was growing up, having a dominant center was an automatic berth in “the championship discussion.”  Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O’Neal, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, et cetera, were always going to make their team a challenger.  These days, things have changed.

Though I have pondered this progression for years, it really hit home to me on Monday night while watching the woeful New Jersey Nets and their 2-29 record play the Thunder.  The game came on while I was eating dinner, and when the starting line-ups flashed on the screen, I began to ponder how many teams had a better true center than Brook Lopez, New Jersey’s man in the middle.  He averages about 19 points and 10 rebounds a game with two blocks which is really, really good.  Obviously, Dwight Howard for Orlando is a better player, but beyond that…  I blanked.  Completely.

My wife tossed out Yao (who is inactive), and the only response I got on Twitter was Tim Duncan (who is a power forward).  The research I did on NBA.com told me that Lopez is in the top-4 statistically.  Based on efficiency ratings the list goes:

1.  Dwight Howard, ORL
2.  David Lee, NYK
3.  Marc Gasol, MEM
4.  Brook Lopez, NJN
5.  Al Horford, ATL

Then, by the total of Points, Rebounds, and Assists, the ranks is:

1.  Dwight Howard, ORL
2.  David Lee, NYK
3.  Chris Kaman, LAC
4.  Brook Lopez, NJN
5.  Al Jefferson, MIN

These rankings floored me.  Not only does the worst team in the league feature a big man that, on any given night, is probably better than the person manning up against him, most of the best “centers” in the league are power forwards playing out of position.  Further, all the teams represented on either of those lists have an aggregate record of 90-121 (buoyed a lot by Howard and Horford).

What happened to the importance of a solid middle?

My theory is that Dirk Nowitzki killed the position.  Prior to the seven-foot tall German arriving in the NBA, anyone who measured taller than 6’11″ was, by default, taught to stand no further than ten feet from the basket unless setting a screen for a ball handler.  Then, Dirk came in and began draining three pointers and handling the ball like a guard, and every giant after him decided they didn’t want to be pigeon-holed as a post player.

Players now hate the stigma of being labeled a center.  Look at how much money teams have wasted trying to get a “big man” to pair with the perfectly capable big man already on the roster.  Dallas is the worst violator in spending close to a billion dollars on seven foot stiffs (Erick Dampier, Desagana Diop, Evan Eschmeyer, Shawn Bradley, and so on and so on) in what The Sports Guy calls “The Mark Cuban Big Man Scholarship Fund.”  All those “DNP-Coach’s Decisions” and luxury tax dollars spent simply to keep Dirk Nowitzki from ever having to play the five when they could have spent less to get a perfectly capable power forward to do the same.  (Note:  The year that Dallas did make it to the NBA Finals, Nowitzki often had to guard the post with the team going small.)

While everyone expects the Mavericks and Mark Cuban to throw bad money after worse, many other teams have done the same.  Were the Minnesota Timberwolves really better off with Earvin Johnson clogging up the middle instead of Kevin Garnett?  Even the uber-responsible San Antonio Spurs have marched a parade of stiffs next to Tim Duncan for no reason other than being able to call him one of the “best power forwards of all time.”

This mindset of fours and fives being entirely different is so entrenched that many Thunder fans are lobbying for Sam Presti to screw up the team by adopting that antiquated notion.  For this team to aspire to greatness, they suggest, he needs to acquire a guy no shorter than 7’0″ tall with the girth of a bull.  Whether the guy can keep up with the cavalcade of quicker, more athletic–but marginally shorter–players that are more frequently playing “center” is hardly addressed.

The same people lobbying for a “true” center are often the same people arguing that the Thunder should offer a max contract to Chris Bosh this upcoming Summer so that he can supplant Jeff Green in the starting line-up.  Personally, I would love to have a guy as talented as Bosh offensively that can also rebound and defend in the post as well as Bosh.  Put him on the floor with Jeff Green and the Thunder are absolutely title contenders, but Bosh would never be satisfied with that dynamic.  The thing is, Chris Bosh will punch you in the mouth if you call him the “C” word… even though his style of play suggests he is a finesse center.

Several years ago, when Toronto won the draft lottery and were destined to select Italian small forward Andrea Bargnani, Bosh started lobbying his boss to instead select LaMarcus Aldridge through the media.  Bosh wanted a “center” so he could play his “true position.”  Of course, Aldridge is another player who, like Bosh, hates the idea of playing the five, but to be the first overall, I’m sure he was telling Chris he’d love to play that role.  (Since then, Bargnani has been shifted down two positions to the five so that Bosh could stay in his comfort zone.)  Anyway, spending 25% of the cap on a guy who will upgrade a strength position and bristle at doing what is best for the team is probably not a good investment.

Meanwhile, the whole league is salivating at drafting a center like Dwight Howard.  Except Dwight Howard, who is a shrimpy 6’11″, was drafted as a power forward and actually played that role early in his career next to the immortal Darko Milicic.  Then, unlike K.G., unlike Tim Duncan, unlike Chris Bosh, unlike Amare Stoudamire, and unlike Pau Gasol, he embraced the role he was destined to play.  To make room for undersized power forward Rashard Lewis (who has a lot in common with Jeff Green), Howard moved full time to the middle.  His game has always lended to the five–he blocks shots, he dominates the glass, and he’s lethal close to the basket–but unlike his contemporaries, instead of trying to develop an inconsistent fade away twenty footer, he worked on honing his back-to-the-basket game.

But what makes him so good is not that he’s bigger and stronger than his opposition, though most of the time that is the case.  What makes him so impossible to contain is that he is almost always the most athletic player on the floor, a by product of what initially made him a power forward.

The question now, is how does this information apply to the Oklahoma City Thunder?  The answer is Serge Ibaka.  Far be it from me to suggest he is going to match the dominance of Dwight Howard, a rare talent, but he does have a lot of similarities.  At just 20, Ibaka possesses elite athleticism, adequate height, and a chiseled physique that should only improve as he matures.  While he still gets out of position a lot and lacks the feel for when to pass the ball back out to the perimeter, those are traits to be expected from a rookie.  His ceiling is off the charts, but attainable considering how much progression he has shown in just 1/3 of an NBA season.

With that team need ready to be filled internally, the Thunder are better off staying put with their post rotation.  Ibaka the heir apparent at the five with Nick Collison around for added grit and Byron Mullens available for six fouls in a pinch is an enviable situation.  Going all in for a max-type player whose numbers would likely dip playing second banana to Durant would be a waste that would hurt the team’s long term ability to keep the core together.

Instead, the money should be used to fill the shooting void.

Share:
  • Print
  • Digg
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • del.icio.us
  • Fark
  • StumbleUpon

Commentary

Post comment as twitter logo facebook logo
Sort: Newest | Oldest

Kev :

Vega :@KevYou’re already giving up on Beejyron?

I have ZERO confidence that he will do anything more than pass out Gatorade – if he becomes a rotational player (10-15 min per game) I will be the first one to apologize . . .
the worst thing that could have happened is for him to get guaranteed money . . .

Call me wishful, but I see Byron taking over Krstic's role as a perimeter popper. He has length, size, soft touch, a good stroke, and is an decent passer. Give him time to establish some back to the basket skills. I think everyone will be surprised.

@JelloPuddinPup

So how does what you say counter the notion that being tall helps you in your role as a basketball player based on how your skillset helps you play the game? You can't teach tall-ness; that's why most of the successful shot blockers and post players are tall.

We need to hire Dikembe Mutumbo as a bigs coach so he can teach his fellow countryman Ibaka the ropes. Think about it, they are both from congo, both super athletic. This either ends in a championship or the killing each other based on the Congolese civil war

@vega,
what about the nickname Bumblebee for mullins, for me it just seems better

Yeah, Yao definitely has an advantage with his size, but it's his skill level that makes it work and allows him to exploit it. Gheorge Muresan and Shawn Bradley had that size but didn't have the skill to go with it.

Lack of size makes it hard to exploit your skills. Jeff Green would be much more effective at SF, being able to post up SF's most of which are the same size as he is. As a PF it's more difficult, he's giving up up to 5 inches of length to many of them, that's a significant disadvantage. He isn't able to use his skills as effecetively.

@John-o

This just seems like a silly argument. These guys were great because of who they were, size/skill/athleticism/etc. All of it together. Shaq wouldn't have been Shaq. Kobe wouldn't have been Kobe. LeBron wouldn't have been LeBron. Spud Webb wouldn't have been Spud Webb. KD wouldn't have been KD. They all used what they had and that's what made them special/great/etc. All these things combined.

It's like you're saying because of one thing, they were incredible and without it they wouldn't be. Maybe yes, maybe no. But there's no way to prove it.

@Brad

Yeah, Shaq dominated at LSU because (surprise) he was also bigger than the average NCAA player at the time too. If Shaq weren't physically larger than the people he muscled over he wouldn't be a first ballot HoF inductee. Lots of Asian player have a soft touch and are deft athletically. But for the NBA Yao needed his height. Anything less and he'd just be a skilled larger individual and not with 20/10 a night potential and a figurehead (even if it was two-headed) of a team offense. How is Jianlian doing in Jersey?

what we really need right now is a 3p expert like Kover,when this team's 3p falls down,they neally win EVERY game

@Kev

Neither was Tyson Chandler.

@justin
That will all depend on how New Orleans plays. If they continue to play mediocre basketball, the entire team, with the exception of CP3, will be on the block. I like Okafor, but he is grossly overpaid. I can't see Presti doing a trade for him, but I could be wrong.

Vega :@KevHe was churning out double-doubles with ease in the D-League. Granted, it’s not the NBA, but still, doesn’t that show some promise?

no - It's the D-League . . .

justin :@Kev
That’s not entirely true.. we could probably acquire Emeka Okafor for little else than expirings as the trade deadline approaches.. whether he’s worth his contract is up for debate.
That said, if we had to trade Jeff Green for a legit, effective center ..

I dont think Okafor is worth what he is getting . . .

@Kev
He was churning out double-doubles with ease in the D-League. Granted, it's not the NBA, but still, doesn't that show some promise?

@Kev

That's not entirely true.. we could probably acquire Emeka Okafor for little else than expirings as the trade deadline approaches.. whether he's worth his contract is up for debate.

That said, if we had to trade Jeff Green for a legit, effective center ..

Vega :@KevYou think he has that little drive?

I am only speculating, but that's my opinion . . .

@Kev
You think he has that little drive?

Vega :@KevYou’re already giving up on Beejyron?

I have ZERO confidence that he will do anything more than pass out Gatorade - if he becomes a rotational player (10-15 min per game) I will be the first one to apologize . . .

the worst thing that could have happened is for him to get guaranteed money . . .

@Kev
You're already giving up on Beejyron?

Vega :I think that developing Beejyron and Chewie is the best option.

well , one out of two ain't bad . . .

I think that developing Beejyron and Chewie is the best option.

you never know, this is a very deep draft if everyone declares.

Our best bet to get a decent big man is to either . . .

make sure that Bryant helps Ibaka develop a post game

OR

include Westbrook or Green in a trade package . . .

outside those two options, we are stuck like Chuck . . .

jdstorm :@the Don
Personally im hoping Presti, is able to talk the warriors out of anthony randolph, by offering expiring contracts for bedrinis

Nelson is very high on Randolph, which is great because he's a poor fit here . . .

@the Don

Personally im hoping Presti, is able to talk the warriors out of anthony randolph, by offering expiring contracts for bedrinis

dream catcher :

Kev :

dream catcher :

Kev :we are probably picking around 15 – it’s hard to get a decent big man at that spot . . .

well we have 2 1sts, a 1 high 2nd rounder plus a couple expiring s in Collions/Krstic so Im sure we could move up 5-8 or so spots if we really wanted.

you can dream . . .we are probably looking at 15, 23, and 33 . . . we probably can’t move up with that . .even if we did, look at the results:Tyrone Hill at 8 last year, he is on milk cartons . . .Swift went #12 in 2005 . . .Lopez went #10 in 2008 . . .Hawes went #10 in 2007 . . .Sene went #10 in 2006 . . .the only player I want above is Lopez . . .my point is that Presti is not sitting around expecting to get an upgrade inside in the draft in 2009 – he’s smarter than that . . .

who said he is sitting around? and I didn’t just say picks I also said he could package picks and a player or 2 to move up if you read it correctly….
and really you don’t think a guy like Collison our own pick Phoenix’s pick and Minnesota’s pick could move us up 5 spots if Presti really likes someone around there?

my point is that there's about a 20 percent chance that an upgrade will be available at #10 . . .

------------

hopefully Collison is going nowhere . . .

@The DON
The problem with Memphis is that they have cut so much salary, they are close to being below the minimum salary requirement. They have no bad contracts to unload, and thus, no reason to trade Gasol.

Kev :

dream catcher :

Kev :we are probably picking around 15 – it’s hard to get a decent big man at that spot . . .

well we have 2 1sts, a 1 high 2nd rounder plus a couple expiring s in Collions/Krstic so Im sure we could move up 5-8 or so spots if we really wanted.

you can dream . . .
we are probably looking at 15, 23, and 33 . . . we probably can’t move up with that . .
even if we did, look at the results:
Tyrone Hill at 8 last year, he is on milk cartons . . .
Swift went #12 in 2005 . . .
Lopez went #10 in 2008 . . .
Hawes went #10 in 2007 . . .
Sene went #10 in 2006 . . .
the only player I want above is Lopez . . .
my point is that Presti is not sitting around expecting to get an upgrade inside in the draft in 2009 – he’s smarter than that . . .

who said he is sitting around? and I didn't just say picks I also said he could package picks and a player or 2 to move up if you read it correctly....

and really you don't think a guy like Collison our own pick Phoenix's pick and Minnesota's pick could move us up 5 spots if Presti really likes someone around there?

The DON : Thats why i am rooting for Thabeet to come along as fast as possible

good luck with that . . .

Also, i think Presti should look to somehow rob Memphis of Gasol. I don't know how he would pull that off, but if anyone's up to it Presti is. Thats why i am rooting for Thabeet to come along as fast as possible, because that makes Memphis that much more willing to listen to offers for Gasol.

But what do we have that they would want? Would they go for one of our 1st rounders this summer plus an expiring?

dream catcher :

Kev :we are probably picking around 15 – it’s hard to get a decent big man at that spot . . .

well we have 2 1sts, a 1 high 2nd rounder plus a couple expiring s in Collions/Krstic so Im sure we could move up 5-8 or so spots if we really wanted.

you can dream . . .

we are probably looking at 15, 23, and 33 . . . we probably can't move up with that . .

even if we did, look at the results:

Tyrone Hill at 8 last year, he is on milk cartons . . .

Swift went #12 in 2005 . . .

Lopez went #10 in 2008 . . .

Hawes went #10 in 2007 . . .

Sene went #10 in 2006 . . .

the only player I want above is Lopez . . .

my point is that Presti is not sitting around expecting to get an upgrade inside in the draft in 2009 - he's smarter than that . . .

I have Beejyron in the starting lineup on 2K10, and he is awesome. That must count for something.

I look at standing reach more than actual height. Its more important.

@John-o
Wow, you're comments on Shaq and Yao are a little off. Shaq was shorter and lighter in college/ at the beginning of his career. He was dominant back than because of his athleticism. Yao is an INCREDIBLY skilled big man. Of course a huge part of his success is because of his size, but he's got a great shot and post skills that are as much a result of his skill as they are a result of his size.

And yes, there are freaks like KD and Dejuan Blair with really long wing-spans relative to their height, so maybe the statistic we should care about should be standing reach and not just the height from foot to the top of the head. But as a general rule, if you're 7 foot 5 you're going to be able to reach pretty damn high.

The DON :
So i guess the question is, how do we move up to the top 3, because I’m pretty sure that’s where Aldrich gets picked.
Can Presti package both our 1st rounders (two mid teens picks most likely) with maybe an expiring contract for Aldrich? Probably not, cause that won’t be enough. Sigh

luckily for us there are a bunch of nice prospects in this coming draft so Aldrich could very well slip some spots.....

I mean look at some of these players probably entering the draft.....

John Wall
Derrick Favors
Evan Turner
Ed Davis
Al-Farouq Aminu
Wesley Johnson
Xavier Henry
Willie Warren
Donatas Motiejunas

no guarantee Aldrich goes top 3 or top 5.

I think the height thing is important for centers in a scheme that actually relies on the fact that they're tall. Shaq would have just been a Etan Thomas type of guy if he were 5 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter. Yao Ming wouldn't have even been in the NBA if he weren't a giant. Dikembe wouldn't have treated us with his infamous finger-wag if he were a 6-8 PF.

The whole point is if you have a 7' big-man (or a 6-11 guy that plays like a 7' big) you can start designing offensive/defensive roles accordingly. The benefit of being 7 feet is you don't have to jump to get your hand up high. The standing reach and no-step leap are way shorter for people who aren't already really freaking tall.

The rebounding issue can be addressed two ways. One is by finding some really good athletes that have great positioning. The other is finding a tall person. Combining the two is extremely deadly as is evidenced by KG being a 24/14 PF in his prime.

John-o :@ Kev… but BJ/Byron went with the #24 pick … oh wait you said decent big man? I kid – I kid… Serge was snagged at #24 the previous year.

and we have Serge now . . . no need to take a player with similar ability . . .

Kev :
we are probably picking around 15 – it’s hard to get a decent big man at that spot . . .

well we have 2 1sts, a 1 high 2nd rounder plus a couple expiring s in Collions/Krstic so Im sure we could move up 5-8 or so spots if we really wanted.

So i guess the question is, how do we move up to the top 3, because I'm pretty sure that's where Aldrich gets picked.

Can Presti package both our 1st rounders (two mid teens picks most likely) with maybe an expiring contract for Aldrich? Probably not, cause that won't be enough. Sigh

@ Kev... but BJ/Byron went with the #24 pick ... oh wait you said decent big man? I kid - I kid... Serge was snagged at #24 the previous year.

@dream catcher
I'd take Ibaka over most of them, and the ones I'd like to have are going to be drafted too high for us to get.

we are probably picking around 15 - it's hard to get a decent big man at that spot . . .

Larry Sanders....
Solomin Alabi....

some intriguing big men in the draft.....

Cole Aldrich
DeMarcus Cousins
Greg Monroe
Derrick Favors
Ekpe Udoh

@Joe

Correct. It's not about height at all, you don't grab the ball with the top of your head. It's about length and athleticism. Charles Barkley was 6'6" at best, but he was an explosive leaper, he was tremendously strong, and had long arms. Dennis Rodman was 6'6" at best as well, but was probably one of the most athletic players ever to play.

Andrew Bogut's injuries are concerning but I don't think they're major. The only big one was the back injury last year, but other than that they've been ticky tack things that can happen to anyone. I mean, Andrew Bogut wouldn't be going anywhere if he were perfect, and it doesn't seem like his injuries are chronic like Tyson Chandler's.

also other guys to keep an eye on are......

DeMarcus Cousins
Greg Monroe
Derrick Favors
Solomin Alabi
Larry Sanders
Ekpe Udoh
Jerome Jordan

etc....

justin :@The DON
Exactly. Nobody is ever going to call Al Jefferson a center, he’s a PF. But he’d be alright next to Jeff Green.

Jefferson and Green would make for a terrible defensive interior . . .

The DON :@jdstorm

Cole Adrich

bingo, the only question is how much will it take to move up and get him if Presti loves him as much as I do?

Trackbacks

  1. [...] The English: Stay with Royce for a second as he explains why the Thunder do not need a prototypical center to survive in today’s NBA. While you’re there, congratulate Daily Thunder on receiving their millionth hit! [Daily Thunder] [...]