Daily Thunder.com

haha.

Alexie is a cool dude, and a great author (read his stuff! seriously). But, he is (was?) a Seattle fan first and foremost.

I would venture to say that he has not watched very much Durant this season because KD is making great progress in the other facets of his game (such turn around in only one off season!).

Sherman Alexie is prone to hyperbole, but I don’t think he’s stupid. It’s probably likely that Alexie hasn’t seen much of Kevin Durant since his rookie season, in which most of those criticisms would have been apt. I’m not sure what Alexie means by the ‘Church of Luke Ridnour’ . . Luke’s career in Seattle was tumultuous to say the least. Earl Watson eventually usurped him.

An example of Alexie’s hyperbole is the fact that he’s suggesting KD should be getting three weak side blocks per game. LOL.

3 weakside blocks per game is asking way too much of a SF. Is Dwight Howard even getting 3 blocks per game?

The only guys I can think of that could get that kind of number would be Olajuwon, David Robinson, Mutombo and Shaq back in his prime. Maybe guys like Shawn Bradley or Manute Bol. I’m probably missing a few. Patrick Ewing? None of those guys are SF.

Now I’m going to have to go do a search to find out.

Speaking of Kevin Durant, Henry Abbot just threw this up on Twitter.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/11459/kevin-durant-eats-plusminus-for-breakfast

Durant, as of right now, is in place for one of the largest +/- increases in NBA history

Making excuses for this guy because he “probably hasn’t watched KD lately” amounts to giving him a pass for talking out of his ass on a topic he doesn’t know much about. Royce may actually have stumbled across Seattle’s very own Jim Traber.

The only non centers to average more than 3 blocks in a game in a season in NBA history are: Andrei Kirilienko (twice), Ben Wallace (three times), and Larry Nance (once). Big Ben was classified as a FC from 2001-2004.

Well, I went and looked it up.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&is_playoffs=N&year_min=1947&year_max=2010&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&lg_id=&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=F&qual=&c1stat=blk_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=3.0&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=blk_per_g

Seems 3 guys have done it from the Forward position. Ben Wallace, Larry Nance and Andrei Kirilenko. Not sure about Nance, but Ben wasn’t a small forward. Kirilenko is probably a SF. So at least one guy is capable.

But anyway, Durant has come a long, long ways since his rookie year. His rebounding, shot selection, defense – all much better.

@justin

Ha! You beat me to it.

@dylan

I suspected that KD’s poor +/- last year had a lot to do with the early season blow outs. I guess this was the case.

@Steve H

I don’t know much about Jim Traber, but I’ve seen enough about him on here to know Alexie is nothing like him. Good writer, too!

@Jax Raging Bile Duct

it’s the advantage of having that data stored on my computer!

Please tell me that Sherman Alexie did not just get compared to Jim Traber.

My thinking is, yeah Alexie may have not watched much, but if that’s the case he shouldn’t be writing absolutely idiotic things about KD. Because that’s the definition of misinformed. Don’t speak like an authority if you don’t really know.

I think Alexie should maybe watch Durant play… I mean there is a reason he is first in adujsted rebounds and steals… and it’s not because he can’t rebound or play D.

Durant’s +/- stats were among the most likely to be skewed. A guy on a really bad team who averages 42 minutes a game is going to have weird results. The 7 games he missed were pretty much the entire basis for the “off court” stats. A particularly weak stretch of the OKC schedule.

Apparently KG’s +/- was pretty atrocious in some years when his teams were terrible and he averaged 40+ minutes and 82 games.

The real problem with the +/- debate was that people were killing a 20-year old who was already top 5 in the WORLD at scoring the ball because he didn’t close out on shooters and went under screens too much.

As if someone who got to be that good at scoring couldn’t get better at defense with time. Wayne Winston is supposed to be some genius stat guy, but assumed that Durant’s future production would match his past production as the basis for his ridiculous “I wouldn’t take him for free” quote.

Poor guy…still in his depression

Thanks for writing about this. I read that entire feature today and it frustrated the hell out of me. I LOVE Alexie’s writing (and Shoals’s, too), but I’m not on board with much of what any of these guys said here. Simmons’s book is phenomenal, in my opinion, and I agree with you that Alexie couldn’t possibly have watched much of Durant lately. I don’t blame him for avoiding the Thunder, with how the whole Seattle thing affected him, but if you’re not paying attention then you shouldn’t act like an expert. He is talking about Rookie Durant.

Abbott’s KD piece today put a big smile on my face, by the way.

Am I an idiot for not knowing who this knobgobbler is?

re: the Church of Luke Ridnour. I was a member. Luke Ridnour was a mediocre point guard that a lot of Seattle die hards believed was on the verge of becoming an elite point guard. Not CP3/Nash level, but a capable starting point on a championship contender. He showed a lot of tantalizing flashes, especially in the 04-05 campaign, and everyone wanted to believe he was just one small mental click from putting it all together.

@Sammy

It’s OK man. I’m a former member of the Church of Ruben Patterson.

He’s writing this now?? Silly to write about something that you watched years ago . . . did he even reference this year’s play?? League Pass is only $169, it takes an hour an a half to watch a game (sans commercials) – he shouldve watched two or three games before opening his mouth . . .

truly horrible jourbalism . . .

I doubt he watches the thunder, he was to bitter about the sonics leaving

Currently, almost all of us are members of the Church of Ibaka.

Sherman Alexie has never purported himself to be a basketball analyst or even a journalist. He’s writer best known for his fiction. Look at the context of what he’s writing this in: an informal, digressive roundtable discussion with a mix of writers/NBA fans discussing Bill Simmons book. That Sherman Alexie is ill informed about Kevin Durant’s current defensive prowess is so completely irrelevant and inconsequential.

MR alexie(btw isnt alexie a chick’s name?)
you are hereby invited to join KD 3.0 church( yes, durant is so good he just skipped 2.0 version and went directly to 3.0) where we worship everything durant and thunder. the only cardinal sin is mentioning the name of seattle sonics.
hope you abide by the rules. have a good day in the name of durant.
amen.

@Sammy

I was right there with you, Sammy. I even have a yellow, throwback Rid jersey.

That means you and I are Sonics fans who have followed the franchise to the southeast. I wonder how many of us there are on here. (Joe’s another one, obviously).

I am also an old school seattle fan who reads everyday but rarely posts. I bet there are a lot of us that just transfered over. I still where my Nate McMillen jursy ever game when I watch on LP.

Simply erroneous and plain ridiculous!

Glenn Robinson??? Seriously THAT is your comeback???

The review is interesting and funny, but the stuff about Durant reads like a guy who claims that the girlfriend who just left him wasn’t that great anyway. Yeah she may have been perfect but to justify that loss the guy has to find the tiny dark cloud in the middle of a hunk of silver.

Sherman, I’m sorry the Sonics left. Maybe in a few years you will have the Bobca… Sonics back in town. If it will make you feel better I’m sure you and a certain radio host could make an interesting segment discussing who is worse KD or Westbrook.

Glenn Robinson is too low a comparison but it still might be worth noting Glenn Robinson had the 44th highest of all-time pts / game for a career so he wasn’t inconsequential or a passing fad. I mean Tim Duncan is just 36th and 85% of the guys ahead Robinson are hall of fame or locks to become one and at least 37 guys with lower scoring averages are already in. Robinson probably won’t get in but without the baggage of a unfriendly image or on better teams longer guys with his stats usually make it in. If Robinson is a ridiculously low comparison that equates to Durant being an almost certain HOF barring injury.

Alexie apparently played high school basketball and still plays regularly and basketball has been a big part of his life is several ways. It apparently makes him quite confident in his opinions and he sees himself as one of the most passionate about the game. That’s fine. And others will interpret and react as they will. And others will feel the way they feel and express themselves as they will. Get what you can or want from others and let the rest go by.

As I’ve said before right now the best current comparisons for Durant might be Carmelo Anthony and Dirk Nowitski. He should pass them both but he has to do it longer and with bigger team results before he catches them fully or passes them. A lot depends on having the right teammates- unless you are transcendental and change them into the right teammates or right enough.

He doesn’t just want to be a Dominique or George Gervin or a Glenn Robinson. He probably won’t be.

He is not yet near the completeness of a Duncan or Garnett. Hard to say yet if he will be.

What does Presti tell Durant about Tim Duncan- the young, Tim Duncan or the champion Tim Duncan? I say it that way but of course there was very little time between the two- the first champion Duncan was a second year player who won MVP of the NBA Finals shortly after turning 23.

What does Durant ask, if anything about Duncan? What does he learn from what he was told or sees or watched earlier? What does he still need to learn? Or does he just need to do it?

Garnett won his title at 32.
Halfway between Duncan and Garnett would be 27.
For Durant that would be 2015.

Really halfway is 27.5. So closest to that would be either 2015 or 2016. That’s quite a while but fairly typical for becoming a champion in the NBA. Long way to the top. That top, if you want to rock n’ roll.

Duncan in 99 had Robinson at 25 PER and a great defensive player. Only two other players above PER15 but the #1 defense overall.

When young Garnett had a best teammate at PER 18-19 he won low 40s. When he had a PER21 teammate it crept up to 45 once then slid back then bounced to 50 and stayed near there for awhile til that teammate went away. When Cassell arrived and went PER23 KG won 58- and lost the Western Conference Finals. Then things slipped again. And again. And again. Til he was traded and won the title with a PER20 teammate, another to be HOF and the #1 defense.

When does Durant get a PER 20 (in significant minutes) teammate? I personally wouldn’t bet on Green or Westbrook.
I do see Harden at 17.8 though. After 1 month in the league.

If Harden becomes the #2 scorer it might change some what you want / need at PF and / or PG to go really far. Or not.

Last season Kobe had Gasol at PER 22 and Bynum at PER20 (well for part of the season and now). Couldn’t have done it without Gasol, or at least didn’t without a teammate of that level or beyond like O’Neal.

One superstar is usually not enough. The supporting cast has to be more than just adequate and you usually need a strong #2. Folks know this of course, but I guess I drifted into saying it.

PER20 for a PG is Rondo or Deron Williams level.
PER 20 for a PF could be Zac Randolph or higher.

Only 21 such guys in the league. Looks like 3 teams have 2 who’ve played enough to count and the Lakers will have 3 when Gasol qualifies.

Of course PER is not enough, but I am using it as shorthand. You need good or great defense and at least good Adjusted +/- from at least a few.

If you get 3 over PER20 and keep a top defense then you really have built something.

And Green or Westbrook might achieve that, though competition for shot usage is a constraint on PER acheivement.

@Ethan

@thunder

Let’s try and refrain from personal attacks, shall we?

I mean, clearly this is a guy as passionate about his former team as we are our current team (probably moreso, because of the way it was ripped away from them). Frankly, I’m tired of this whole OKC/Seattle thing, and I think most other people around here probably are, also, and this kind of thing doesn’t help anyone get past it.

I agree that it sounds like he hasn’t watched much Durant this year, and when I read his thing earlier yesterday I had the same sick feeling in my stomach, because if a guy like this is telling other people stuff like this, it’s going to stick around, and KD isn’t going to get as much credit as he deserves for the hard work he’s put in and vast improvement he’s made on both sides this year. Thank goodnes for Abbott, amiright?

Everyone go vote for the All-Star Game!

why is there a picture of ray romano next to the article?

@Omar

thats mr. alexie

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/11459/kevin-durant-eats-plusminus-for-breakfast

Kevin Durant eats plus/minus for breakfast
December, 10, 2009 Dec 105:56PM ETEmail Print Share

Layne Murdoch/NBAE via Getty Images

Now making his team’s defense way better: Kevin Durant.
By Henry Abbott

This is such a funny story. In most of the NBA, it’s kind of a geeky sideshow.

But for a certain bunch of people, mostly in Oklahoma City, it’s war.

Here’s the basic gist of it: For his first two years in the NBA, Kevin Durant had some of the worst plus/minus numbers in the NBA — even as his traditional stats were off the charts.

It was a weird deal. Very weird.

I wrote about it, and it was taken as some kind of mean-spirited attack, even though I said all kinds of nice things about the player. Perhaps they were a little hung up on plus/minus expert Wayne Winston’s statement that Durant’s numbers were so bad, he wouldn’t take Durant on his team for free.

Durant responded to that post, basically by saying that real fans appreciated the fact that he was playing as hard as he could, and whatever plus/minus was we’d be better off letting Kevin be Kevin.

In a response, I talked about plus/minus. It can be ignored in small pieces. But two years of telling the same story … that’s a lot of evidence. Watching a metric ton of Durant video made clear that while he’s amazing at tons of things, he had a miserable time defending the pick-and-roll, and closing out on shooters. Those two things alone could explain why his team allowed so many more points per possession when he was on the floor. He also tended to end up shooting against double and triple teams more than most players.

It’s a new season, though, and players Durant’s age improve quickly.

And so far this season?

Kevin Durant may have the greatest plus/minus improvement in NBA history.

He was one of the very worst players in the league by that measure last season, and now he’s second-best. Only Dirk Nowitzki rates better in Wayne Winston’s adjusted plus/minus. As of today, Durant’s Thunder are giving up 11.5 fewer points per hundred possessions when he’s on the floor. And they’re scoring 13.75 more. That’s unbelievable. (Interestingly, the next best player in the NBA, according to this early-season measure, is Marc Gasol. Then LeBron James and Luol Deng. If those numbers seem a little funny … it’s early yet. Plus/minus means a lot more with bigger samples.)

Durant’s agent, Aaron Goodwin, denies this has anything to do with a newfound regard for plus/minus. “Kevin is a great player working hard to get better on offense and defense each day,” says Goodwin. ” His team overall is playing better, and they are competitive in games now. Kevin Durant wants to be one of the best to have ever played the game, and he works hard toward that goal.”

Meanwhile Winston is regretting his exact choice of words. “I should have said ‘If KD played in the future like he played in his first two years I would not want him on my team.’ Clearly he has made a fantastic improvement. … I would certainly want him given how he plays now. He is first team NBA and possibly MVP.”

I have been asked if I regret what I wrote. Heck no! I wrote he had great potential, but playing D like that, and taking some of those shots, he had hurt his team in his first two years.

Problem solved.

Hats off to Durant for his hard work. It’s a happy story. Take a bow, Kevin!

(And, if you have a free minute, could you tell your fans to stop sending all that hate mail?)

@Royce
Stephen King’s opinions about baseball are as relevant to me as Ben Affleck’s. These are the opinions of fans, not of analysts.

I’m not usually one to stick up for Simmons…but it seems to me that Alexie’s criticism, in addition to being uniniformed and unfair to Durant, is also unfair to Simmons. Although, his review of Simmons’ work seems generally positive, in reference to Durant he is essentially saying that Simmons lacks persepctive or as he puts “he is kneeling with his head against the pew in the Church of Durant.” Sounds like a nicer way of saying Simmons has his head up his ass when it comes to Durant.

I’m not familiar with his other work and maybe its great, but, like other posters, I really don’t see why Alexie should get a free pass for talking out of his ass and I don’t think we’re out of line to criticize him for doing so.

Alexie’s writing is awesome. Not sure about this but I think he posted once at Blazersedge after the franchise relocated that he couldn’t really follow Basketball any more; it being a painful reminder. If that’s true then it’s likely that he’s not cognizant of the improvement in Durant’s game. Anyway, though I can’t help but feel for the guy, he should still have based his review on more substantial criticisms because this one doesn’t hold.