Denver is good; beats Oklahoma City 102-93
Sometimes you can just sort of sense when Oklahoma City is overmatched. The Magic game in Orlando. Boston at home. And definitely tonight against Denver. Ten minutes in, you just could kind of feel like the Thunder was going to have to hang on for dear life to stay close. It hasn’t happened all that often this year, but sometimes you’re just in over your head a bit.
Denver started the game 1-11 from floor as a team, but yet trailed only by two during that stretch. You knew that the shots the Nuggets were missing we going to start dropping and when they did, things were going to get rough for OKC. The fact the Thunder didn’t take advantage of Denver’s poor start really set the pace for this one.
Of course there are the typical (and good) excuses. Second of a back-to-back. On the road. Playing a good team. Playing a good team that is 10-1 at home. There’s not a lot of shame in losing this one. Denver is a force in the West people. Of course you’d love to have seen a closer game with a real chance to win, but sometimes you’re just outclassed. And that was absolutely the case tonight.
I’m definitely not upset about it. We all know the Thunder’s going through a tough stretch of games here. And we all know this is a team that’s young and building. I think at times we forget that very easily. As long as this team takes care of the ones it should and maybe wins a few it shouldn’t, things are going to be alright for this young group. Yeah, some guys plays poorly, the offense was poopy and in general, the team was flat.
But don’t forget, this was against the Denver Nuggets, one of the very best teams in the league. Oklahoma City isn’t there yet and you shouldn’t pretend it is. The Thunder’s got a little bit to go before you should really be upset about these kind of losses.
And you know what? Honestly, had OKC gotten a key offensive rebound here, a bucket there or a little 5-0 run somewhere, the Thunder could have made this somewhat interesting in the fourth. Denver left the door open for a Thunder comeback, but OKC never seized the opportunity. One sequence that really summed it up: Down 11 and after a big stop on a Carmelo Anthony drive, Kevin Durant corralled a loose ball and looked to have numbers heading up the court. As he turned upcourt, he accidentally dribbled it off James Harden’s foot and the ball rolled out of bounds. Anthony quickly hit a jumper and pumped the lead back to 13. That kind of night.
Notes:
- I really saw the last two minutes of the first half as the most critical moments for Oklahoma City. The Thunder were down 10 at that point and those couple minutes were going to determine whether or not the Thunder was going to have a chance to be in it in the fourth. Instead of closing the half and cutting into a 10-point Nugget lead, Denver extended their lead to 15. And really that was that.
- Hey guess what Denver? OKC won the REAL battle. Kevin Durant’s 32 > ‘Melo’s 31. WHAT NOW SCORING LEADER?
- I like to think I’m rarely That Fan, but how bad was that officiating in the third? OKC could not get a call. The over-the-back on Kenyon Martin that went as a foul on Russell Westbrook. The jersey pull by J.R. Smith on KD. And more and more. It just seemed to really add up.
- 21 turns for the Thunder tonight. Combine that with 39 percent from the floor and you know you’re in for a toughy.
- A few things about Westbrook’s (14 points, 5-15 shooting, six assists, six rebounds, four turns) night: 1) His first 3 attempt. He had an open look, but he also had a baseline drive to the rim. I feel like Westbrook defers to the jumper too much. He’s a dynamic driving player. He draws fouls, he can beat almost anyone and he can create. He hit a few jumpshots, but I like him going to the rim more. 2) You can tell when the offense stalls he tries to shoulder the load. He’s a good offensive player, but he tries too hard. He’ll miss five shots in a hurry and that’s why his percentages get so messed up. When he plays within the flow of the offense, he’s actually a really, really good offensive player. I realize some aren’t happy with him and by no means do I feel fine about a 5-15 night with four turns, but I continue to feel like these are the pains we deal with while we watch growth. Maybe that’s just me.
- Does Krstic look uncomfortable with his jumper to anyone else? Maybe it’s a confidence thing, but it just doesn’t look quite right to me. Maybe that’s why he had just one point tonight.
- I found it interesting that Jeff Green drew the assignment on ‘Melo and Durant guarded Kenyon Martin. I actually thought Uncle Jeff did a decent job on Carmelo. But let’s face it, Anthony is just about impossible to defend. It’s just a matter or whether or not he makes his shot. He’s an awesome offensive player.
- Enough of the Birdman’s crap. Seriously, I’m over it. The posing, the posturing, the taunting. It’s stupid. It’s annoying. It’s just something I don’t care to see from someone that blocks a shot every now and again.
- Why doesn’t Jeff Green ever jump into his defender when he’s got them up in the air with his grandpa head fake?
- Serge Ibaka rebounds too much on his athleticism and not enough on technique. He’s trying, but he’s either looking to put a body on someone while the ball is coming off the rim or he’s just jumping at the miss and leaving a man untouched.
- How quiet were the Denver fans tonight? I didn’t hear any music or sound effects and I sure didn’t really hear any crowd noise. Strange.
- I hate to play this card but you take out a crap second quarter (30-17), OKC scored four more points than Denver. It’s pointless, but it’s true.
- Joe put it perfectly in the comments: “Possessions are the currency of basketball. Without them you can not score period. If you give them away with turns you get what we got. End of story.”
I salute OKC for forcing Denver to keep its starters in the whole way. The Thunder could have folded it up and just walked out 20-point losers, but these guys kept fighting and scratching to at least keep you watching. You just felt like a Durant 3, a stop and another basket and boom, we’re right in this. And that sequence just never came. It’s part of learning to win and it’s also part of playing an elite team on their home floor. Such is life in this league.
With the loss OKC drops to 12-11 and loses two straight for the first time in over a month (Nov. 3). With another tough game coming Wednesday, it won’t be easy to right the ship.
Next up is Dallas Wednesday night on national television. So far, OKC is 1-0 on ESPN. Good sign, right?
I have a good feeling about Wednesday.
“The only way to stop losing is to play better”–Nick Collison.
I think that is the Zen of Basketball 101. You can’t let bad habits become the way you play, (also Nicky..) surprising how forthright he was in the post-game interviews. At least KD outscored Carmelo… that’s something right?
Thabo looked TIRED… King James took the wind right out of him last night I think…..
Westbrook WANTS to be the MAN. That’s why he had such poor shot selection in the fourth.
I really want to tell Chris Andersen and J.R.—- ENOUGH with the TATS ALREADY!!!!! Geez…
Come on Thunder–We can beat these old tired Mavericks!
Look at the free throws disparity in the bar chart. Sheesh.
Chris Andersen is one of my favorite players. He’s a fan favorite where ever he goes and I’m glad he’s cleaned himself up and found a place where he can contribute. He’s a difference maker.
Russ is shooting way too many jumpers. It’s glaringly obvious to everyone. Pretty much anyone on the team taking a jumper is a higher percentage look than Russ taking one; that’s what annoys me.
@girlballer
A lot of us has been noticing how Russ is trying to be the man and it’s just his second year! His head might be getting a little too big because of all the hoopla about him being the Thunders second best player.
I know we all say, well he’s just 20 and this and that, but the reality is he just wants more than he can have right now and that being a true second fiddle to Durant. He thinks way too fast and reacts even faster instead of slowing the game down and making a basketball play (this isn’t the LA playgrounds). Either we shorten his leash with a pg who will challenge his starting status or draft over him and try to find another pass first pg.
That will send the message to Russ that he has to really focus on his game and his minutes won’t just be given to him because he’s the best one on the team for the job,
Dallas is a very winnable game. They have a very good record right now, but they don’t really strike me as a real contender. Still, something I really had been hoping not to see again. Westbrook officially went under 40% from the field after the last game, and cemented his shooting percentage with tonight. I’ve been quite hard on Westbrook in the past, but I had held back a lot of real attacks this year. But the time is now for a little advice. Brooks (not Westbrook, who obviously is not capable of controlling himself yet) needs to sit Westbrook when he’s shooting too much. In fact, he should give an edict that, short of a direct order from the coaches, Westbrook should not take more than 8 shots per game, 2 shots per quarter for the next three games. There is a difference between desire and just not getting it. Westbrook desires to do something he just can’t, and it kills the team.
That all said, I never expected a win, and the kids made it respectable at the end (no double digit loss). They put themselves in a bad place, and couldn’t catch a break in the bounces or from the refs. I look for them to rebound in a big way come Wednesday. And as meaningless as points in a loss are, you have to like that Durant came out and looked the part of a star against both Lebron and Melo back to back. If he’s not voted as the backup forward in the all-star game, there is no justice in this world.
Agreed. But, passion and exuberance (sp?) may be just what you get with Russ. That is the trade off. I really like Harden as our back-up PG at this point. He certainly seems to have a better eye for the floor and doesn’t have the obvious mobility issues that Livingston has. No way do you take Thabo off the starting line–BronBron,Kobe, Wade, etc… would EAT HARDEN’S LUNCH–and make HIM pick up the tab!!! LOL
I have been on this Bosh bandwagon hot and heavy, but maybe a trade/sign for a Speedy Claxton type b/u PG is more important? I like Russ, and I am willing to accept his stinkers along with his flashes of brilliance, but a b/u PG is never a bad investment, is it?
Maybe we draft a guy like Sheron Collins. A true point who won’t go early in the draft, but will help any team he’s on.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct
That’s why I was a bit of Ty Lawson fan going into the draft last year. I thought he’d be a nice fit behind Westbrook.
@girlballer
Good points, btw i’ve always enjoyed your post on here, always well written and always good point imo
Interesting thing I found.
In the last 20 years, only 16 times has a starting point guard shot less than 40% from the field and had an A:TO ratio worse than 2:1. Only two point guards did this more than once, Gilbert Arenas and Allen Iverson.
Russell Westbrook is on pace to do it twice.
If he does it for the second time do we feel like that’s the kind of player we have on our hands? Is that the type of point guard we want running the offense?
Also one of the times Gilbert did it was 2007-2008 where he only played 12 games and was hurt for them.
From that perspective it seems that Russ is that kind of guard and maybe we’re trying to find a square peg into a round hole.
Interesting stat find justin.
I am not surprised by those 2 names being in the mix. Any surprises on the rest of the list?
Iverson’s teams (at age 26 and 28) won 33 and 43 respectively, with defenses 4th and 10th best. This was post-Finals appearance, the last year of and then post Larry Brown.
The main Arenas season was at 22. They won 25 games. With a 20th rated defense. It was first season on a new team with a big new contract. His shooting was mostly higher after that season, his turnovers mostly lower, his assists mostly not that much higher.
not great models. All the offenses sucked. Because of the PG and beyond.
Not great “team” models those years but of course each had some success in other years, with other team offensive / defensive mixes.
Kinda have to decide the # of “givens”, whether you tune this team to Durant first and mainly, or Durant and whoever, or Westbrook-Harden-Durant-Green or a core beyond that. The more “givens” the better the fit has to be to justify it.
I assume a fair number on your list were young PGs? How many turned out well, alright or badly?
If you really wanted to push this you could calculate how much your list improved from year 1 thru 5 on FG% and A/TO on average and what benchmarks at various time-points if achieved were good signs of eventually get to a high level ultimately or if not achieved were signs a player doesn’t have much historical basis to expect getting to the desired performance levels on FG% and A/TO or really team success, though where a player will fall on a spectrum can bounce around and average are only a rough guide as players can be unique.
again, I hope to have the defensive breakdown of this game late tonight . . .
Enter Mr. Positive…Did we actually hold Billups to a .167 field goal percentage?
Hate to keep dwelling on Bosh, but for those claiming that Bosh is too much of a superstar to come here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyXs58jq9Ao
He’s just a normal guy–seems like he would fit in on a tight team like OKC.
I was in Denver on business last night so I was actually at this one. A couple things you may not have noticed at home.
1) The Pepsi center was probably at 2/3 capacity at most. Beyond this it was just a really quiet crowd. I think they felt like this was a no brainer to win so there was no point in getting amped up for it. I had multiple Denver fans comment to me afterward about how surprised they were with KD and that they had never heard of him.
2) The Thunder looked really lackadasicle/tired the whole night. Even in pregame warmups they just looked slow and were missing jumpers short. You could definitely tell they had just played the Cavs. The only player that looked like he had any energy was Thabo and he rode the bench half the game.
3) The Birdman stuff is 10x as annoying in person. It’s just non-stop. Every promo they run is about him. Half of their merch has his face plastered on it. The fans in Denver get significantly more excited when he comes on than Melo. Pathetic.
4) Our scoreboard is so much better than theirs.
And for all the people who keep claiming that the Thunder don’t need a defensive, shot-blocking, rebounding 5, here’s a nice stat from last night’s game: “The Thunder again had trouble on the defensive glass, allowing 14 offensive rebounds.”
I think he might even change his mind about defense on a team like ours. If he gets along well with Durant and Green and all, he might start playing much harder. It would definitely give him a chance to make a deep playoff run, so you’d think that would motivate him.
^That was in regards to the Bosh comment.
I’m trying to post more information about the Westbrook stuff but it doesn’t seem to be going through!
yes sherron collins… Can I start his bandwagon? How does one go about doing that?
Defensive Breakdown
All in all, it was a good showing (+38; above average). Yes, we lost by 9, but it wasn’t due to the defense. We just played a very good/great offensive team. Against three-fourths of the teams in the NBA, this showing would have been good enough to get a win. This was the first time this year that four starters had a very good defensive score (+8 or higher).
Defensive MVP – Jeff Green (+16)
Now some of you are saying – wait a minute: Anthony scored 31 points – how can you have Jeff down for +16? Just a quick reminder: if a player contests a shot and the shooter scores anyway, the defender is NOT penalized. This is basically what happened tonight with Carmelo.
It was an interesting choice to match Green with Anthony. I applaud the decision. I think that Jeff did a very good job on Anthony; it’s just that Carmelo is a great scorer. Anthony got by Green once in the first quarter. After that, it was solid defense by Jeff. I marked him down for three contests (closely guarding a jump shooter and forcing a miss), a block, and a forced airball on Carmelo. Carmelo made twelve shots, but when Green had the assignment, he was in good position every time (besides the sequence described earlier).
What really made Green the MVP of the night was his play elsewhere – remember it’s a team game on defense as well as offense. Besides having to cover Anthony, Green also found time to:
a) block two shots by guard Aaron Afflalo
b) draw a charge on Nene
c) deflect a pass to Thabo (the statisticians gave Thabo the steal, but Green really gets the credit here)
d) contest two J R Smith shots
e) block a J R Smith shot
f) pick up another deflection
Talk about working overtime!
Kevin Durant (+11)
It started quietly for KD. He started out on Kenyon Martin, and the Nuggets didn’t really go to Martin until 2:40 left in the first: Martin scored on a post up on KD. KD did have three mistakes, but he got going later in the game with a drawn offensive foul, a contest, a strip, a deflection, a steal off an errant pass, and a block. The play of the game (and one of the best plays of the year) ended in a KD block, but there were lots of things going on before that. Let’s break it down.
It’s near the end of the third quarter. Chauncey Billups (Westbrook) has the ball at the top of the key on the left side. Chris Andersen (Collison) picks for him. Collison does a great job hedging and forces Billups to pick up the ball thirty-five feet from the goal. Billups turns back and passes to a now open Birdman. Collison scrambles to recover. Meanwhile, on the weakside at the low block, D J White leaves Kenyon Martin to get Andersen at the high post. Durant leaves his position in the shell to stop Martin from getting a wide open dunk. Right before KD left to cover Martin, Collison saw Martin open and started to race to him. One problem: all this activity left Anthony, the NBA scoring leader, wide open. Collison changed course to contest Anthony. Anthony went by Collison on the drive. DJ White leaves Andersen on the high post to slow Anthony. KD also leaves Martin to stop Carmelo. Carmelo flips up a shot from close in, only to have it swatted by KD. The timing was excellent. I encourage anyone who still has the game on DVR to go watch the sequence. My awkward description doesn’t do it justice. It was great team defense. (I have rewound and watched that play at least a dozen times).
Now let’s look at one of KD’s errors. A great offensive team will make you pay for what, at first glance, seems to be a small mistake. In the third quarter, Billups was in the lane and looked ready to shoot. KD anticipated the shot and left his man, Kenyon Martin, to get a rebound. As soon as KD left, Billups fired it to Kenyon, who scored soon thereafter. Of course, even if Billups had shot the ball, KD was in poor box-out position.
Nenad Krstic (+9)
Nenad’s defensive ascent continues. He only gave up one post up score to Nene. He picked up two blocks, a deflection which turned into a steal, and a contest of Carmelo Anthony near the three point line. Lately, he’s been playing defense almost as well as Collison (our best defensive big man).
Thabo Sefolosha (+8)
On Saturday night, Billups destroyed Nash, one of my favorite players, with five three pointers in the second half of the contest against the Suns. Thabo did a great job of preventing Billups from shooting the long ball. He also denied penetration to Chauncey. Billups made ONE field goal all game. Thabo was out of the game at the time.
Nick Collison (+3)
In the third quarter, Collison was whistled for a defensive three second call, mostly because Kenyon Martin could easily be heard whining about the situation. I would reprint what Martin actually said, but this is a blog intended for all ages. Anyway, fast forward a few plays later. Collison is guarding Chris Andersen, who is a non-factor on offense unless he is at point blank range. Collison ignores him to block the lane for an anticipated breakdown off the pick and roll. However, this time, Collison makes sure to get out the lane after a couple of beats and then QUICKLY he reenters the lane to thwart the drive. After reentry, Martin is driving, but Collison is waiting for him to force a tough shot. I say it every game – I love watching Collison play defense.
Russell Westbrook (+1)
D J White (zero)
Shaun Livingston (-1)
Serge Ibaka (-3)
James Harden (-6)
So much for the very good defense that Harden WAS playing – lately he’s put up a couple of stink bombs. As noted previously, Thabo had Billups on lockdown. Late in the first, Harden spelled Thabo. Harden gave up penetration to Chauncey right after he entered the game. Later, he gave up the lane twice to J R Smith. The only positives: a deflection and a loose ball. Well, at least there are three more games this week.
@J.G.
Defensive rebounding is a TEAM thing and an instinct thing. If everyone blocks their man out (like they are supposed to) we get the rebound 85% of the time. When you see games where opposing teams get several rebounds in a row… that means the blocking out was blown. Not that we need a big rebounder.
@Kev
I was sure that block was going to be the block of the night.
I came away thinking that we played good defense, and even our offense played pretty well. I think the thing that killed us for this game was all the turnovers we had.
Denver is the real deal though. Second only to the Lakers. No shame in playing very well against a good team.
agreed . . .
Yesss! Thank you Kev. I got ripped a part by thinking that our big guys (Green and Krstic) had been playing well the last couple of games overall (with Green having a 26 point outing Sunday and a great D game Monday). I know that our offense has been languishing and Krstic and Green were a part of that Monday but I was talking about overall performance. It seems to me that the Thunder have been threatening to use the the P&R more as oppose to the P&P lately and it seemed pretty successful (especially with Collison). I wish that we would mix it up more and maybe prove Joe’s analysis that Krstic could be a better interior player if we allowed him to be (instead of relying on that jumper). Alas, we have much to work on and I suppose that that is not high on their list right now.
The pick and roll would would most likely help Westy’s A/TO ratio as well.