Thunder 85-Lakers 101
Box ScoreRemember that show from the 90′s with Michael J.Fox “Spin City”? The premise was that no matter what happened that was a negative the idea is that it could be spun so that there was some silver lining or that what was bad was actually good?
How about this: Serge Ibaka?
Is it working? I am trying here….work with me.
But seriously the Thunder got knocked back on their heels collectively from the get go and were never in this game at any time. The Lakers, as much as I detest them deserve all the credit in the world. They were dominant in every way and never let the Thunder get any sort of foothold or gain any confidence whatsoever.
When Ron Artest and Kobe went out the Lakers really looked average, but the dirt bags wouldn’t stay on the bench. Such is life in the NBA I guess. The Lakers have a collection of talent that just won’t be denied and we were simply dominated from end to end. I can only hope that the Thunder take this loss personally and get pissed. I want my team to be angry and hungry the next time out. I want them humiliated and embarrassed looking to get this monkey off their back.
I would be remiss if I didn’t mention that I am now a card carrying member of the Serge Ibaka fan club though. If I can take one thing away it was that we have a legitimate big man under the basket should Brooks choose to use him. Ibaka got his first taste of big minutes tonight and he responded with a highlight reel of big defensive plays, so many of which won’t even make the box score. He did record an amazing 5 blocks and 13 rebounds, but he was responsible for changing or altering a half a dozen or more other shots as well. He simply protects the basket, and nobody else on the roster does that very well but the man from the Congo. Did I mention he could shoot too? We are used to seeing these raw African big men come into the league (I am talking to you Mo Sene) who can block shots and rebound but usually can’t figure out how to do anything offensively, or can’t stay on the court because of foul trouble. I think Ibaka has a real shot to be different. Tonight he only collected 4 personals in 32 minutes of aggressive play. And he made at least two very nice mid range jumpers. His shooting stats are a bit muddled (4/12) because of so many put back attempts, but make no mistake this guy can stroke the jimmy to some degree. I think the play of Ibaka is the one thing we can take away from this game and feel good about. Do any of you see a slight Shawn Kemp comparison?
- If the jimmy isn’t falling for Krstic and if he isn’t getting the ball to take those jimmy’s he just doesn’t fit this type of game. The Lakers are very LONG along the front line. Gasol and Bynum have arms so long they look like they can touch the rafters. Krstic seems short armed and he isn’t a high jumper. So he needs to hit that jumper to clear out the middle or he is a detriment. Tonight he was 1/2, but only getting two shots up in 14 minutes tells me he wasn’t getting good looks. The Lakers know our game plan would be to get Krstic clean jumpers and so were on the watch for it.
- The Lakers did a fantastic job on us defensively to start out. They rattled our cage and had us pressing. Durant especially was forcing his offense. I was thinking that Brooks needs to start having the conversation with Durant about how he needs to be more of a facilitator and decoy at times. The Lakers were systematically doubling Durant on the catch from time to time. Not every time so that he could expect it, just here and there and it had Durant out of his comfort zone. He needs to know that if he’s getting doubled somebody else is open and make the pass.
- Kevin Ollie apparently had a sore wheel after his first stint and didn’t return. With the Thunder just announcing that Kyle Weaver is headed to Tulsa, and Livingston still 2 or 3 weeks away after getting his knee roto-rootered Westbrook had to play 42 minutes in a blowout. There are no other points on the roster.
- Ryan Bowen: no stats all star. No seriously, a basketball player who looks like an accountant. Good hustle for the end of the bencher.
- I was wondering before the half if we would see D.J.White. We needed offense bad and D.J. is nails with the midrange. My hopes were answered and D.J. was 6/7 for 12 points in 15 minutes along with 3 boards and 2 blocks. For you Scrabble fans out there: D.J.White was at one point being guarded by D.J.Mbenga. I need a vowel.
- The Laker defense extends itself much farther than most teams we play. They are in your grill way up beyond the three point line.
- Pau Gasol is a genius with his passing. 6 assists in 29 minutes. He gets deep post position, gets the pass and hits a guy in stride cutting to the basket. Too easy.
- Harden was really forcing his jumper also. It was really ugly, like he was trying to guide it into the cylinder. When Harden was shooting free throws a fan was soooo loud yelling “Harden sucks” that my wife heard it through the TV across the room. Harden did still sink both free throws.
- I thought that maybe with KD picking up his second foul early that the team might get scrappy like they did when KD was out for 7 games last year and won 5. No such luck. With KD out Artest the pit bull turned his sights on the disappearing man Jeff Green.
- You know it’s bad when the original ‘stache Adam Morrison gets in against your team.
- The Lakers didn’t mess around figuring out how to get good shots. They got up 99 field goal attempts to our 86. Our 19 turns didn’t help.
- Don’t look at Westbrook’s assist to turn ratio tonight. Spare yourself.
- I’m not sure if I heard it correctly, but I think Brian Davis said that our 15 blocks tied the all time franchise record from sometime back in the 80′s.
- I thought Green played some of his best defense of the night when he poked Kobe in the eye and forced the anointed one to call a timeout.
- The Lakers had a 12-5 offensive rebound advantage and 30-20 overall rebound advantage at the half. By the end we won the battle overall and were even with 17 orebs.
- Serge was the only positive +/- guy that got a lot of run against the Lakers first team. D.J. White and Ryan Bowen wound up positive but it was mostly garbage time. Ibaka led both teams in “help value“.
@Anonymous
Sorry. Forgot to sign in. That was me….
@Durantula
Actually Serge has a somewhat consistant shot up to the high school 3 (can’t remember the ft atm lol). And once he gets comfortable in the post he has some nasty quickness if he can get a handle on it.
I would like to see Ibaka being the first big off of the bench WAY before attempting to put him into the starting lineup. And as big of a fan of him that I am i will admit that sometimes he looks a little bit lost, so that would get him more time to adjust.
Incase you havn’t read the t-shirt comments here are some links I found to help with the no boltness..
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/powerranking?season=2010&week=4
http://espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/powerrankings
There is my bolt help for these days when there are no bolts. That is all I have found so far.
@dork
Also a short article about Fridays game being picked up by ESPN
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/11/23/hangtime.blog/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1
Don’t forget, two weeks ago Ibaka played 15 minutes in Staples Arena against the Clippers and fouled out. Last night he played 30 and only had 4 fouls against the Lakers.
You don’t improve that much in two weeks. He’ll be inconsistent for a while. Consistency is worth much more than we give it credit for. That’s why Nick Collison will have a place on any team in the league. He can just flat out get the job done game in and game out. He won’t win the EuroLeague dunk competition, but you can sure use him on your team.
Krstic is similar. Yeah, his shot is missing some games, but the dude plays consistent defense. It just so happens that it looks poor when he plays guys like Gasol and Bynum. Krstic is outclassed athletically, and there’s nothing he can do about that. He plays them the same way he plays Spencer Hawes and Fabricio Oberto.
Ibaka is the future for us, but be prepared to be patient while he goes through those inevitable growing pains.
There are challenges with most of the lineups.
White-Ibaka has the outside shooting by bigs, though I am not sure how vital that is to the starting lineup success.
I am not sure anything changes things that much for Durant. He is either hot or cold on his own it seems like much of the time.
As much I discouraged jumpshots from Collison they are falling better right now than even before.
Ibaka-Collison you can go Ibaka PF on athletic, quick guys. You can stick him at Center if the PF is too crafty or strong inside or use him there when his reactions off his man are good. Or just tell to guard the PF and do nothing else when the reactions aren’t good.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct
This season to me is all about Ibaka-Harden.. By that I mean I want to see where they are at the start of the season vs the end. If we make the playoffs its just icing on the cake (yes I love wins as much as the next guy). Though if these two pan out.. we could be VERY scary next year.
Thunder are 1-5 against the current top 10 teams and only 4 team have played that level more often so far. That is too much for them right now.
But they are 6-1 against the bottom 20.
Make that 6-2.
2-0 against teams ranked 11-16th, leaves 4-2 against essentially the bottom half.
That is a start, the necessary minimum first step.
Green has played 480 minutes and is =55. In the other 197 minutes the team is +79. That works out to -5.5 per 48 minutes with and +19.2 without. Of course this is raw but it is also not looking good for him right now, though it looked good the first week or two and could swing again.
75 forwards have played 250+ minutes so far and Green ranks below average on PER right now, right at the 33% percentile. There are some bigger names doing worse but…
Durant’s 2 best pairs are Harden and Collison.
But he playes with Thabo 3 times as much and Krstic 2 1/2 as much and is just barely above break even with them while is clicking at almost +20 with Harden and Collison.
Playing against starers & subs, uneven comparison, yeah, yeah. So mix it up and see how they do in the reverse situations. Only way ‘to know”.
Almost at average for 3 point attempts (16th) but 22nd on 3pt FG% so still 20th on makes.
I can’t believe no one has of yet commented on the awesomeness of the photo. This had to be rectified. Thanks Joe!
Is the offense as is (at 103.4 Efficiency) “good enough”?
One answer is that no team made the playoffs last season with less than 107-8.
Another answer it that on average over the last 10 years one team did make the playoffs with a similar Offensive rating.
But 1 a year isn’t a lot and half of those had better defenses than the Thunder has right now.
If the Offensive isn’t good enough, why?
Possible answers:
1. Brooks’ system and play-calling.
2. Westbrook’s quarterbacking.
3. Westbrook’s turnovers.
4. Thabo’s shooting.
5. Durant’s 3 point shooting.
6. Green’s sort of blah performance all-around.
7. Kristic’s jump-shooting orientation.
8. Overall team shot selection and overall team shooting strength. Hoopsdata.com suggests about half the problem is related to each factor.
9. Lack of shooting firepower off the bench or lack of using what you have enough.
I may have missed something but maybe not. If I did what is it?
I won’t try to prioritize the importance of these but most or all of these are issues. If you are going to fix the offense significantly I’d think you will have to fix at least a third or half of these.
I guess you could add
10. Other player turnovers.
11. Rest of team passing besides Westbrook.
12. Durant’s lack of drives.
The Thunder only have 3 guys average 10+ points. The average around the league is almost 5 and only 2 other teams have just 3- Cavs and Pacers and the Pacers almost certainly bump up when Dunleavy comes back.
My pleasure!
Durant’s 3 pt FG% right now is the 4th lowest in the league among those who take 3+ a game. Harden is a bit above average in that group.
Harden will be the 4th 10+ a game scorer but the average is still near 5. Krstic is close but where they are right now is unusual.
When Durant is cold is quite difficult to cover for that and even when Wsetbrook or Green is cold is not as easy as it is for most other teams.
If you look at the sum of usage for the current starting lineup it is a bit above 102. Below 100 is usually a problem. With Harden it would quite high and high is usually helpful for Offensive Efficiency. But the real problem is probably that except lineups that have at least four of Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Green and Kristic they have almost no chance of being above 100.
That being… sum of usage % for the players in a lineup.
Esoteric I know. But in the spirit of “going boldy, where no man has gone before” or something.
Oh and Brian Davis was right that the 15 blocks tied the franchise record from 1-14-1987, though it looks like that was based on data back to only 1986. Impressive block party.
The highest of any team during the period was an incredible 24. 15 turns out to be good for a ten way tie for 91st to 100th place for all teams.
If you want trivia.
One site has the Thunder’s playoff chances at 35%.
Not sure if Hollinger has posted any playoff chances yet.
They are in an area / time where the chance could swing pretty far pretty quickly one way or the other.
Tim Legler at ESPN has the Thunder IN at #8, replacing the Spurs.
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-091123/seeding-west
@Brett
That has got to be a some sort of sick joke
Am I the only one uncomfortable with all the undeserved hype we’re getting prematurely?
Defensive Discussion
Overall, the Thuder’s score was +37 (above average), but it was negative in the 1st quarter, when the game was still in doubt. Marc Gasol (who was out last time these two teams met), Andrew Bynum, and Kobe Bryant proved too much for our defense.
Defensive Leader: Serge Ibaka (+15)
Nick Collison is an above average defender, but Ibaka is simply better. Nick is a better positional defender inside, but Serge has more lateral quickness. Serge can play pick and roll defense better because he has the ability to reach the perimeter shooters in time to challenge the long jump shots. Serge also has more shot blocking ability. The defensive possession of the year occurred early in the second quarter. Serge was fronting Gasol in the post. The ball was thrown over Serge and Gasol caught it, seemingly ready to score easily. Serge rotated around and blocked Gasol from behind. After the offensive rebound, Adam Morrison drove in to score an easy one and Serge swatted it out of bounds. Then, after the ball was inbounded, Marc Gasol attempted a turnaround shot only to be turned away by Ibaka. Folks, it doesn’t get any better than that.
Later in the second quarter, Ibaka was at it again. After Jeff Green missed on a runner, the ball was rebounded and Derek Fisher quickly passed ahead to Josh Powell, who was poised to score on James Harden, who was out of position to put up a serious defense. Meanwhile, Serge had been outrunning our guards (Westbrook and Thabo) to get back and help. He arrived in time to pin the ball on the glass. It was just an awesome display of effort. This excellent display of transition defense was not an aberration, there were various other times where he sprinted back to help the team in transition. Remember, this is a guy that is six feet ten. Look out Nick Collison, someone is trying to steal your playing time . . .
Ryan Bowen (+10)
Talk about a guy making the most of his playing time: he had two deflections, and a nifty steal when he stepped in the passing lane. It was all in garbage time, but still you have to appreciate the effort.
Kevin Durant (+6)
It was a great night for blocks for the Thunder, and Durant chipped in two. Ron Artest (KD’s man for the majority of the evening) was quiet for most of the night, as Gasol, Bynum, and Bryant used most of the possessions.
DJ White (+5)
All DJ’s “scores” came in garbage time as well, but he seemed more active than usual. If he ever gets any meaningful minutes, hopefully he will play just as well in those situations.
Etan Thomas (+4)
Jeff Green (+2)
James Harden (+1)
Thabo Sefolosha (-1)
Well, after registering a +23 last time out versus the Lakers, Thabo delivered a clunker. This game seemed to be played in the interior, as their post players and Kobe (who also post up) went to work. This difference hindered Thabo’s ability to be a major defensive factor. He also had four mistakes, two of those involved Kobe “schooling” Thabo with deft moves. Thabo will have to wait awhile to get his revenge.
Nenad Krstic (-2)
Kevin Ollie (-2)
Russell Westbrook (-2)
Usually you have at least a good defensive night when you record three blocks, but his usual “slow to react” off the ball defense brought down his overall score.
Great breakdown as always… Only one mistake, unless I kissed it and the Lakers traded Pau for Marc. Great job.
thanks – I have Gasol issues I Guess – I watch too many Grizzlies games. . .
I fail . . .