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	<title>Comments on: Dave Berri finally likes the Thunder</title>
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	<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/11/dave-berri-finally-likes-the-thunder/</link>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/11/dave-berri-finally-likes-the-thunder/comment-page-1/#comment-34071</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:37:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6157#comment-34071</guid>
		<description>The current starting lineup after a recent update is now only half as bad on Adjusted as before. But stat theory suggests there is only about a 1 in 6 chance that it would perform they way it has, considering opponents,  and actually be truly positive long-run.  But maybe Adjusted is off.  Either that or it isn&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The current starting lineup after a recent update is now only half as bad on Adjusted as before. But stat theory suggests there is only about a 1 in 6 chance that it would perform they way it has, considering opponents,  and actually be truly positive long-run.  But maybe Adjusted is off.  Either that or it isn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/11/dave-berri-finally-likes-the-thunder/comment-page-1/#comment-34068</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6157#comment-34068</guid>
		<description>Nobody is gangbusters positive with Ibaka the way they are with White. Except White. For whatever that is worth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody is gangbusters positive with Ibaka the way they are with White. Except White. For whatever that is worth.</p>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/11/dave-berri-finally-likes-the-thunder/comment-page-1/#comment-34066</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:24:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6157#comment-34066</guid>
		<description>Dynamite in terms of raw +/-. Selective and short time. But I&#039;d use him more and find out more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dynamite in terms of raw +/-. Selective and short time. But I&#8217;d use him more and find out more.</p>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/11/dave-berri-finally-likes-the-thunder/comment-page-1/#comment-34065</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 20:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6157#comment-34065</guid>
		<description>White-Westbrook is dynamite, early. White-Durant is dynamite. Even White-Green  is dynamite.

White-Ibaka raw +/- is dynamite. White-Harden is dynamite. White-Weaver is double dynamite. White-Collison is dynamite. 

But it is spare time so far. Right or not?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>White-Westbrook is dynamite, early. White-Durant is dynamite. Even White-Green  is dynamite.</p>
<p>White-Ibaka raw +/- is dynamite. White-Harden is dynamite. White-Weaver is double dynamite. White-Collison is dynamite. </p>
<p>But it is spare time so far. Right or not?</p>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/11/dave-berri-finally-likes-the-thunder/comment-page-1/#comment-34057</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6157#comment-34057</guid>
		<description>Durant and Westbrook leading the way... with impact on team defense?  That is what is suggested by the raw on/off data.

Team defense worse with especially Green then Thomas and Harden.

Harden offsets his defensive impact by being a strong positive on offense- compared to Thabo. Collison on the court was a big thing too, early, on offense.


As for lineups OKC now down to just 4 over 2 minutes a game and just 2 more over 1 minute a game.

So 45% of all the time is &quot;chef&#039;s surprise&quot;.
I guess overall those lineups are only costing 1 point a game so maybe Brooks has some ability as a lineup manipulator. But there are probably better ways to use the minutes. Maybe a lot better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Durant and Westbrook leading the way&#8230; with impact on team defense?  That is what is suggested by the raw on/off data.</p>
<p>Team defense worse with especially Green then Thomas and Harden.</p>
<p>Harden offsets his defensive impact by being a strong positive on offense- compared to Thabo. Collison on the court was a big thing too, early, on offense.</p>
<p>As for lineups OKC now down to just 4 over 2 minutes a game and just 2 more over 1 minute a game.</p>
<p>So 45% of all the time is &#8220;chef&#8217;s surprise&#8221;.<br />
I guess overall those lineups are only costing 1 point a game so maybe Brooks has some ability as a lineup manipulator. But there are probably better ways to use the minutes. Maybe a lot better.</p>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/11/dave-berri-finally-likes-the-thunder/comment-page-1/#comment-34003</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:55:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6157#comment-34003</guid>
		<description>There is major new data available-
Adjusted 4 Factors.
For last season.

I might break out some of the findings regarding the Thunder
later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is major new data available-<br />
Adjusted 4 Factors.<br />
For last season.</p>
<p>I might break out some of the findings regarding the Thunder<br />
later.</p>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/11/dave-berri-finally-likes-the-thunder/comment-page-1/#comment-34001</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:53:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6157#comment-34001</guid>
		<description>I was going to talk about Noah vs Green since it was raised at Berris site but I think I&#039;ll pass since I&#039;ve touched on it before.

The main issue is whether Green is or will be what he was envisioned to be. It is not a clear yes yet by any means- on inside scoring, passing, defense or rebounding. Whether there is enough data to say a clear no that will vary by the person. It isn&#039;t looking that good for a 5th pick right now from my perspective. 

The &quot;Project big wing&quot; draft of Durant-Green looked like it was about them being special as a combo as if that was going to be the next twist to surpass other teams- a new version of Jordan-Pippen moved up the position chart. Even if they can tolerated, I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve seen anybody assert that the pairing by itself is actually a driving force on the team. It is just 2 players as far as I can tell. Similar in many ways, not really helping each other that notably. Sure the amigos get along and that&#039;s nice but when it comes to the 2nd deals I don&#039;t think it will make a meaningful difference.

At this point Green has the expectation he will always be a 30+ minute player and head to pretty big money. Cut that back and he will be pissed. They may have stopped giving out minutes this season but he got his and there will probably be drama if they ever do move him back to twenty-some minutes or off the bench. But it will be pretty hard to allow Ibaka and/or White to emerge without doing so- unless Ibaka can be mainly a 5. 

Same with Westbrook. Bump him down  and he&#039;d be pissed and start counting the days til he can leave. The expectations are too set to change now, the sense of entitlement is pretty strong.

It just wasn&#039;t really as simple as giving them big minutes for experience. I guess if you were completely sure of yourself it might look that way or you knowingly gambled it would all work out you could take that chance. But knowing how often plans do not pan out, chemistry isn&#039;t realized, I see it as a big gamble, the ways out made tougher by acting like this was the future, no question. It is hard to back off these guys. You can back off Krstic or Thabo easier.

Maybe it will work out as designed. Or maybe Presti or Brooks taking the heat will eventually have to make tough decisions. Big ones.  With big consequences and maybe not as nice a final long-run outcome as they&#039;d like after the after-shocks of those decisions (guys pissed, guys leaving).

But I am speculating again. Time will tell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was going to talk about Noah vs Green since it was raised at Berris site but I think I&#8217;ll pass since I&#8217;ve touched on it before.</p>
<p>The main issue is whether Green is or will be what he was envisioned to be. It is not a clear yes yet by any means- on inside scoring, passing, defense or rebounding. Whether there is enough data to say a clear no that will vary by the person. It isn&#8217;t looking that good for a 5th pick right now from my perspective. </p>
<p>The &#8220;Project big wing&#8221; draft of Durant-Green looked like it was about them being special as a combo as if that was going to be the next twist to surpass other teams- a new version of Jordan-Pippen moved up the position chart. Even if they can tolerated, I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve seen anybody assert that the pairing by itself is actually a driving force on the team. It is just 2 players as far as I can tell. Similar in many ways, not really helping each other that notably. Sure the amigos get along and that&#8217;s nice but when it comes to the 2nd deals I don&#8217;t think it will make a meaningful difference.</p>
<p>At this point Green has the expectation he will always be a 30+ minute player and head to pretty big money. Cut that back and he will be pissed. They may have stopped giving out minutes this season but he got his and there will probably be drama if they ever do move him back to twenty-some minutes or off the bench. But it will be pretty hard to allow Ibaka and/or White to emerge without doing so- unless Ibaka can be mainly a 5. </p>
<p>Same with Westbrook. Bump him down  and he&#8217;d be pissed and start counting the days til he can leave. The expectations are too set to change now, the sense of entitlement is pretty strong.</p>
<p>It just wasn&#8217;t really as simple as giving them big minutes for experience. I guess if you were completely sure of yourself it might look that way or you knowingly gambled it would all work out you could take that chance. But knowing how often plans do not pan out, chemistry isn&#8217;t realized, I see it as a big gamble, the ways out made tougher by acting like this was the future, no question. It is hard to back off these guys. You can back off Krstic or Thabo easier.</p>
<p>Maybe it will work out as designed. Or maybe Presti or Brooks taking the heat will eventually have to make tough decisions. Big ones.  With big consequences and maybe not as nice a final long-run outcome as they&#8217;d like after the after-shocks of those decisions (guys pissed, guys leaving).</p>
<p>But I am speculating again. Time will tell.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/11/dave-berri-finally-likes-the-thunder/comment-page-1/#comment-33945</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6157#comment-33945</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-33900&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@DSMok1&lt;/a&gt; 
I knew you and Crow would find this interesting. I&#039;ve noticed you posting WP stuff before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-33900" rel="nofollow">@DSMok1</a><br />
I knew you and Crow would find this interesting. I&#8217;ve noticed you posting WP stuff before.</p>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/11/dave-berri-finally-likes-the-thunder/comment-page-1/#comment-33944</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6157#comment-33944</guid>
		<description>By Adjusted +/- the team is being carried by Westbrook and Durant asmong starters  with the best contributions off the bench being from Harden and Collison. 

By Statistical Collison drops away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By Adjusted +/- the team is being carried by Westbrook and Durant asmong starters  with the best contributions off the bench being from Harden and Collison. </p>
<p>By Statistical Collison drops away.</p>
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		<title>By: Crow</title>
		<link>http://www.dailythunder.com/2009/11/dave-berri-finally-likes-the-thunder/comment-page-1/#comment-33941</link>
		<dc:creator>Crow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 19:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dailythunder.com/?p=6157#comment-33941</guid>
		<description>Thabo&#039;s just above average rating on statistical +/- is better than I expected. A horrible early Adjusted +/- might be a surprise to some if you haven&#039;t heard me already mention it. 

Green&#039;s  just above average rating on Statistical +/- might surprise others but I expected it. I knew about the pretty horrible early Adjusted +/- though the error is still large.

Kristic is running a few points below average on Statistical and also has the horrible  early Adjusted +/-.

Not as horrible as Thomas though on Statistical or Adjusted. Ollie is negative too, though modestly on both. By Adjusted 4 of Presti&#039;s role playing decisions  Krstic, Thabo, Thomas and  Ollie aren&#039;t looking good. And yet somehow the team is doing well. There is something wrong or at least confusing  with this conflict. Maybe it breaks one way or another later. Ultimately it is about lineup performance.

The top tier draft choices are all looking good on Adjusted +/- except Green who is the lowest in that group on Statistical too.  If minutes are really and fairly competitive then Ibaka, White and Collison should be given chances and  Green is on the spot.

Westbrook is a bit low on Statistical but Adjusted has him as the team megawatt driving force well above Durant though he is doing might fine early too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thabo&#8217;s just above average rating on statistical +/- is better than I expected. A horrible early Adjusted +/- might be a surprise to some if you haven&#8217;t heard me already mention it. </p>
<p>Green&#8217;s  just above average rating on Statistical +/- might surprise others but I expected it. I knew about the pretty horrible early Adjusted +/- though the error is still large.</p>
<p>Kristic is running a few points below average on Statistical and also has the horrible  early Adjusted +/-.</p>
<p>Not as horrible as Thomas though on Statistical or Adjusted. Ollie is negative too, though modestly on both. By Adjusted 4 of Presti&#8217;s role playing decisions  Krstic, Thabo, Thomas and  Ollie aren&#8217;t looking good. And yet somehow the team is doing well. There is something wrong or at least confusing  with this conflict. Maybe it breaks one way or another later. Ultimately it is about lineup performance.</p>
<p>The top tier draft choices are all looking good on Adjusted +/- except Green who is the lowest in that group on Statistical too.  If minutes are really and fairly competitive then Ibaka, White and Collison should be given chances and  Green is on the spot.</p>
<p>Westbrook is a bit low on Statistical but Adjusted has him as the team megawatt driving force well above Durant though he is doing might fine early too.</p>
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