Hornets 88, Thunder 79: Five very important thoughts
I didn’t have a chance to listen, but here’s five things I took from the box score:
1. Russell Westbrook wants to be a point guard and he’s proving it so far. How does 18 assists and three turnovers in two game do you? He had just seven points on 2-8 shooting today, but eight assists in 24 minutes is dandy. The scoring will be there. I think it’s obvious that he’s doing his best to run the show rather than be the show.
2. Serge Ibaka has a chance to make this team. Twelve points on 6-10 shooting and nine rebounds gives him a leg up on Byron Mullens already. Add on two blocks and the big guy could be the back up center on the team this year. I thought he was likely Tulsa bound but with performances like today coupled with his solid Summer League, he has a shot.
3. Oklahoma City was outrebounded 50-36 today. That. Is. Not. Good. Basically, Serge Ibaka and Jeff Green rebounded the ball well (nine for Green as well).
4. I’m not all that concerned with low shooting percentages. We all know Kevin Durant isn’t going to have many 2-11 shooting nights. Obviously, 38 percent from the field isn’t all that wonderful, but it is the preseason. Other than Ibaka though, the bench shot incredibly poor. Kevin Ollie, Kyle Weaver, Mike Harris and Byron Mullens went a combined 4-14. Oh and in 23 minutes, Mullens was a -18 and had just one rebound. Yay.
5. Through two preseason games, Jeff Green has attempted ZERO free throws in 60 minutes. That’s actually kind of hard to do I think. Especially with the way these replacement refs are calling things. (Speaking of, things were better in that department. Just 46 fouls called and 55 free throws between the two teams.
Next up, Phoenix at the Ford Center Monday night. And after that, just 17 days until we do this for real.
Anybody know why DJ White didn’t play any today? I figured he was going to get a lot of time this whole preseason because of how well he’s done so far with so little time (last year and in summer league). Anyone that got a chance to listen to it – did they say anything about him?
Scott Brooks just said he was going to give other people more playing time. Today Ibaka got a lot of minutes.
I think the lack of rebounding tells us that Nicky C has been on the shelf.
However, I concur about the big Serge. I think he’s making the case to be our backup Center/basket protector.
The worst part is when there was a shot clock violation near the end of the game because no one had the nerve to shoot. I believe Weaver had the ball in his hands at that time.
Off Subject: Did you guys hear that Stephen Jackson will be suspended by the Warriors for the next two (preseason) games because of his behavior in last night’s game.
I’m sure that missing those preseason games will teach him lesson.
I listened to a decent portion of the game, and one thing to note is that the Thunder lead a majority of the game. At least until Byron Scott sent CP3 back in during the fourth period against our backups.
Also, what is more interesting to note than just Westbrook’s numbers is that he didn’t even attempt a shot from the field until the third quarter. He seemed to do really well penetrating, then finding the open big. This kid is really working hard.
One other note, Matt Pinto was talking about how Uncle Jeff was playing some serious defense today against David West.
It’s still really early, but it’s nice to see that the young Serge Ibaka showing he can play with the big boys. He reminds me of a young Shawn Kemp.
I’ll admit I was pretty frustrated when they put Paul back in at the end of the game and we didn’t even attempt to counter the move. I mean, I guess I understand it, because it’s just preseason and all, but if they’re trying to win, shouldn’t we have been also? At least put Russ back in and see what he can make happen…
In unrelated news I just saw that Francisco Garcia will be out four months with a wrist injury. That’s good news for Desmond Mason. After Tyreke Evans and Kevin Martin, Dez is the next logical guy now to see minutes backing up Martin at the two guard/swingman position. His make good contract will probably be a done deal now. Good for Dez.
@Lefty
There is just no point in trying to win these games. You can’t treat your players like they are made of glass- Coach Brooks should, and did, give significant minutes to our starters together with our new guys. With that goal accomplished, how sick would you have felt if they put Russell back in to counter CP3 and he had gotten injured? The real question here is what the hell was Coach Scott thinking when he put CP3 back on the floor?
So far, I think our pre-season play has shown that both White and Ibeka are deserving of at least SOME nightly rotation minutes- do NOT need to spend any time in Tulsa- and that one or both of those two could become a serious bad-ass/starter/potential all-star in the coming years.
The thing is, sending either or both of them to Tulsa isn’t an indictment on them at all. They are both players of the future for the team, but I don’t think it’s likely that either of them will get big minutes with Green, Collison and even Etan Thomas as vets (I guess Green is a vet) ahead of them. So rather than have them sit on the bench and not get any better, sending them to Tulsa lets them get big minutes and lets them work on their games. Even more so since the 66ers are owned by the big club and managed by Presti. Their head coach is reportedly in sync with what Brooks does and what Presti wants. So I think that DJ, Ibaka and even Weaver will be in Tulsa at some time during the season; not because they aren’t ready, but because you can’t develop sitting on the bench. The D league is only for first and second year players. You can’t send Etan Thomas, so to ease the logjam you send D.J.
The only downside to them getting reps in Tulsa is that there is a chance for longterm injury. This is what happened with Mo Sene. He blew out his knee about three years ago in the D-league when he was assigned there. Granted you can blow out your knee walking across the street, or lifting weights (like Francisco Garcia blowing up his wrist lifting weights); But, you don’t get a Corvette or a Farrari just to polish it and leave it in the garage. You buy them to drive them and to use them. Same with these players, and they get better by playing more, not by absorbing the ambiance sitting on the bench.
@Joe
While I do see the proposed benefit of additional PT in Tulsa, I’m thinking they keep those guys with the main club because they are both ready to contribute now. As much as I like Collison, I’m starting to think that both DJ and Ibaka would give us better production backing up Uncle Jeff. And while I am also optomistic that Thomas can give us some quality minutes behind Krstic, I would prefer to see Ibaka over Collison as our third string 5. I don’t disagree that more minutes in Tulsa could potentially accellerate their development, but think the Thunder will be better this year with those guys contributing right away.
@Steve H
@Joe
I agree with both of you essentially. Except…
I believe White and Ibaka do deserve decent minutes in the Thunder line up, but they will get more minutes/experience in the D-League. Look at the rotations.
There is 48 minutes available at the 4 and 5. Green should book at least 24 minutes at the 4 with the rest of his time will be spent at the 3. Collison deserves 20 minutes a game an he can split that time between the 4 & 5. So that will leave White and Ibaka with 10-14 minutes at the 4.
Depending on how you split up the the veterans, there is even less time available at the 5. Krstic has a nice offensive touch. Thomas is more of defensive minded center. Collison is all hustle and can rebound. Nenad will probably get at least 20 minutes if not more. Collison and Thomas should get at least 10 each (if not more). So Ibaka might be able to squeeze in 5-8 minutes.
So unless Collison or Thomas get benched/injured/traded White & Ibaka realistically could only get 5 – 10 minutes each night. I would rather send one player down to Tulsa so the other could gain 15 minutes a night in OKC. I do believe by the end of the season one of the veterans should be benched or traded to make room for these two guys.
@Dai
Like Eastwood said in “Unforgiven”, “Deserves got nothing to do with it.” White is a better shooter- right now- than Collison, and as best I can tell, does just as well defensively and off the glass. Ibaka is a wildly more athletic defender- right now- than Collison, and will cause more headaches in the paint, and block many more shots, than Nick. I honestly don’t see Ibaka’s offensive game lagging very far behind Collison’s either. I think the Thunder would be better served giving Collison’s 20 min per to those two, as well as the other 10-14 min per night you projected. In having those two play significant rotation minutes, there is a real possibility one of them will emerge as deserving even more PT, and taking over for Green as the starting 4.
With all the extra bodies at the 4/5 now, I think it pays to keep in mind that you have to keep up each player’s trade value. Also, if you keep in mind that the team is not expected to make the playoffs, I think it’s okay to sandbag a little. If Ibaka is not VASTLY better than Collison and White (who played nicely at the end of last year), then I say you keep Ibaka on ice for one more year and let Collison and White improve their trade stock sharing scraps at the 4/5.
I have no doubt that Ibaka can contribute right now, but let’s remember that this is a marathon not a sprint.
…. that said, I can’t wait to see them all play with my own eyes on Monday…heck yes!!
I wouldn’t mind seeing Krstic losing his starting spot. His spot up shooting would be helpful off the bench, but he doesn’t fit any needs on defense or rebounding. Does any one else feel that way?
@Dai
Yes, I feel that way exactly Dai. Green is going to continue to start as he is, for better or worse, the starting power forward for the foreseeable future. Two jump-shooting, paint aversive big men at the 4 and 5 is going to get us precisely nowhere near the big dance at the end of the season. So Krstic has to be relegated to the bench and either Collison or Thomas inserted as starter, neither of whom is more than a stopgap – either/or as far as I’m concerned.
As far as extended minutes for White and Ibaka – give them time in Tulsa then reassess in the New Year. They may look ok now, but guys like Collison have been around and productive for years, so they’ll have to earn the time away from the vets.
The older I get, the more I value experience over unproven potential…
The Lakers cut Mickael Gelebale.
I’m in favor of Kirstic losing his starting spot if someone comes along and proves they are better. Right now, I don’t think that has happened.
The problem really isn’t Kirstic or his lack of interior presence. Kirstic is still the best center on the team. The problem is that he plays next to Green, who is still the best PF on the team but who also also lacks interior presence. So you can either play your best C and PF together, or you can look for different sets or hunt for better players.
Kirstic played really well at the 5 with Collison at the 4 last year. They played even better with Green at the 3 when Durant was hurt. I think you will see that set a lot this year when Durant is resting. I don’t think Ibaka or White will be able to handle the leagues better 5′s, so I don’t see Kirstic (who is the only natural center) loosing his spot this year without a new team member.
My guess is that the Thunder’s interior will look vastly different by the trade deadline, but we will see.
I guess I left out Thomas… but I have just not been that impressed so far.
Make sure you all check out twitter.com/dailythunder. Some good stuff today!
Personally, I would glue Thomas to the bench and give serious minutes to Ibaka and White. Heck, I might even take some of Collison’s minutes and give them to Ibaka And White.
Unless White or Ibaka really comes on strong, Collison has too much trade potential to rob him of all his minutes.
Plus, he is hated by Jim Traber… they have to keep him.
@B-RY
Just no point in sand-bagging. Its not like we are going to be in contention for a top-five pick next year anyway. THIS YEAR is when we start turning this thing around, and I see nothing but upside in thrusting White and Ibaka into significant rotation minutes at this point.
@B-RY
Hey, no reason to give up on Thomas at this point. I agree that he is too old to figure into our long range plans, but he could be just the sort of banger we need down low, and giving him some minutes in which he hopefully plays well will only increase his trade value at mid-season (when I’m hoping we make a move for the likes of Gortat or Biedrins).
Sorry, that last one was directed at Vega.
Nice pics. Thanks.
@Steve H
I see your point, and I’m sure that White and Ibaka will see a fair amount of playing time. Personally, I’m a huge Ibaka fan because I love his size, athleticism and transition game. I’d love to see him elevate and become a starter, but not unless he proves he really deserves it.
I have been reading this site daily for months now, as i was a seattle fan for many years and have followed the move and continuing development of the team from afar (very afar – i’m in Australia) and until now haven’t actually written anything however i felt the need to comment on a few things:
you guys need to wake up to yourself, Ibaka wont be a starter for two years, its unrealistic expectations which will cause disappointment. They’ll be lucky to win 33-35 games this year, its very rare to see more improvement than that.
ALSO, durant will no way average 30 and I would hope he doesnt have to score that much and save some energy for defense. if he scores that much it will only take away from the team, and reduce the amount of involvement harden, westbrook and green have.
Thomas is going to be a great addition – the reason you arent impressed is that it doesnt show his impact in stats. His post D and aggressiveness will be a complement to Green and Durant.
Whoever said DJ and Ibaka should take all of Collison’s minutes are freakin insane, there’s no way either are ready for, or deserve those minutes. The best place is D-league. Big minutes for rapid development. Look it up, NBA teams barely practice during the season, so their development would be slowed dramatically if they arent playing and merely travelling with the team.
I hope so. I also believe Thomas is undervalued at the moment.
long term i think green will be the 6th man, both ibaka and white are showing they may deserve to start at PF and are much better rebounders, but it could end up being situational, our team is so flexible at most positions, we can run or we can play half court, do whatever we need to win
like the Thomas addition – but it’s merely a footnote if he doesnt start – it’s no biggie if you’re playing post defense agaisnt second stringers – we need more toughness in the starting lineup . . .