Daily Thunder.com

@Steve H

I bet it would be a future pick like Vince said. I can't imagine giving up more than a 2nd rounder for a guy who would be a rental.

Maybe a 2nd rounder and a Grape Nehi. I think the Nehi would be giving them too much though.

OKCThunderFans forum would like to kick in a Grape Nehi with that basketball in order to help acquire Barry (I hate inside jokes too).

Steve H :@Warren

Not sure how that would work with us under the cap- could we swap him for a second rounder next year? Devin Hardin? Rights to Varden? I hope they aren’t contemplating sending Weaver to Houston for Barry, I think that would be too much to give up.

I can't imagine we'd give up more than a second-rounder in 2092 for Barry. He's 37, coming off a relatively weak season, and is not known for his defense. Most of his minutes would come from Thabo, Livingston, and Harden and I can't believe that makes sense.
I'm not sure of Houston's financial situation but I'm sure they're just trying to dump him -- it looks like they're in the luxury tax according to hoopshype.com. But the cap wouldn't matter since we have $2M free. We could trade a basketball for him and that's about all I would offer.

Harden was the most efficient 2 guard in the nation hands down. He clearly fit the need best. I think Tyreke will be good, but if we are just talking about college comparisons, Harden is the more efficient scorer.

Also, one thing this team desperately needs is somebody who can get to the hole and finish. RW was a monster getting there, but not so much finishing. KD can do it, and Green can do it but doesn't do it much. As soon as you have three guys on the floor who can take it to the rack and finish, it opens up everything and the offense flows so much better. Harden is the man here for that. His lefty drives were incredible in college and he was like a poor man's Ginobli. He will be so much more valuable when he heads for the rack and KD and Green and Krstic are all waiting for that last second pass to nail the jumper as the defense collapses. He didn't have those shooters in College.

Harden is going to be tremendously better at the two than if we had taken Rubio and moved RW to the 2.

@Warren
Not sure how that would work with us under the cap- could we swap him for a second rounder next year? Devin Hardin? Rights to Varden? I hope they aren't contemplating sending Weaver to Houston for Barry, I think that would be too much to give up.

For everyone saying Harden is not a great shooter. I mean, I won't say he's a pure shooter, but he didn't miss a lot on all of his combine and workout videos. AND no doubt has the range!

Steve H :And anybody out there dissing either Westbrook’s ability to run the point, or Harden’s ability to significantly contribute at the 2 spot should consider holding their criticism until at least a couple months into the season. Both of those dudes could be playing in all-star games for many years to come. Do you really want to be the guy behind an embarassing quote?

I agree with you on both of them.

Steve H :I think adding Brent Barry would be a smart move- assuming he comes at a reasonable price. 5 seconds left on the clock. OKC trails by 3. Thunder send out KD, Green, Harden and Brent Barry, along with Collison to in-bound the ball. Makes sense to me, as long as we don’t over-pay for a “break glass in case of emergency” 3 point shooter.

I am pretty sure Barry would be a trade. He is contracted at $2mm or so for next year so we would be trading for him.

And anybody out there dissing either Westbrook's ability to run the point, or Harden's ability to significantly contribute at the 2 spot should consider holding their criticism until at least a couple months into the season. Both of those dudes could be playing in all-star games for many years to come. Do you really want to be the guy behind an embarassing quote?

I think adding Brent Barry would be a smart move- assuming he comes at a reasonable price. 5 seconds left on the clock. OKC trails by 3. Thunder send out KD, Green, Harden and Brent Barry, along with Collison to in-bound the ball. Makes sense to me, as long as we don't over-pay for a "break glass in case of emergency" 3 point shooter.

I don't think Westbrook can develop passing skills like Chris Paul or Jason Kidd. That's a combination of abilities that come along once a decade, and I don't think you can learn to do what they do.

I do think that an elite athlete (which Russell is) can develop enough skills to be acceptable in that area (which, given all his other attributes, is all he really needs). Bear in mind that NBA offenses now aren't nearly as dependent on a pure PG as they were in the 80's (when they were key in running the break) or in the 90's (when you had to be a pretty good ball-handler and have good vision since your defender was likely grabbing on to your arm with one hand and your shorts with the other). Offenses are pretty organized nowadays (except when Carlesimo is coaching. Zing!) Russell doesn't need to learn blind cross-court passes or behind-the-back passes across the line. He just needs to slow the game down and learn within each set options 1,2,3 and 4 when he beats his man. If he can't do that with Brooks and Cheeks teaching him, well...

And a point on Rubio...if he's that good, or if Westbrook doesn't pan out by 2011, there may not be a team out there that's in a better position to trade for him. Even with the re-ups for KD and Green, we should have cap room (not that we'd need much for him), a surplus of talent (5 picks next year, 2 in the first round) and a nice nucleus to surround him with. If you're a Rubio fan, put the drum away and start rooting for Flynn to pan out in Minnesota. Start beating that drum again somewhere around February 2011.

@Jax Raging Bile Duct

I guess that's true. Though, I think the situation helps a little bit. Russell is in a good situation where he doesn't have to be the main guy. I also think the fact that he played off the ball in college helped hide any PG flaws he may have had. But Evans is likely going to be asked to come in and be THE guy (I know they have Kevin Martin, but he is a lock to get injured for 20-30 games a year, so Evans will be the lead guy at some point).

Westbrook is a defensive freak... but him AND Evans in the backcourt? Not all that great. Harden isn't a lights out shooter, but Evans is just downright miserable (and its painful to watch).

@Colin

Well you can say all that about Russell too. He can't shoot, he's not a great passer, and he makes questionable decisions. They're both athletic freaks of nature that can penetrate with the best of them. I'm hoping Russell can learn how to make better decisions. As for the ball handling and passing skills, I've always wondered if you can develop those or if you're just born with them, like Chris Paul or Jason Kidd. If you can develop those, I'm hoping he can do that too.

But really, other than 3 inches, they're the same player. Except I don't know about Evans' defense. Russell's is pretty good for his experience.

@Jax Raging Bile Duct

You want no part of Evans.... they're going to play him at point in Sac-town, and that's got bust written all over it. I saw him in person in the tourney... he's got the size to play the point, but he doesn't have the skill. He can't shoot, he's not a great passer, he makes questionable decisions, and on top of all that, he was completely flustered by the zone (I'm aware hardly any NBA teams play zone, but I think it shows a fundamental flaw in a point guard's game when they don't know how to beat a zone. A good point guard loves to go against a zone because it is easy to pick apart. I was watching some old 92 Dream Team games on NBA tv, and Magic was picking apart zones left and right.... it was awesome to watch).

Rubio is/was overhyped. I still don't see his appeal. He may not even end up in the top-3 of the PG class when it's all said and done. Besides, the Thunder made the right move. Westbrook was adamant about staying at point guard. Why would you want to piss him off? Believe me, if you have a happy team that works hard, they are going to do better than a disgruntled team that tries to get by on talent.

I have to admit, I was not a Curry or Harden fan for a long while. I didn't get on board until I saw the combine numbers, which changed my mind on their athleticism. Neither of those guys passed the Jax Eye Test. I wanted Evans or DeRozen. We already have an Evans on the team in Russell, so that meant I was hoping for DeRozen. His athleticism alone just left me impressed, but I knew 3rd was too high for him. So that left room for a Rubio.

Now, I didn't get to watch much of Rubio, but I did see some. And the Jax Eye Test put Rubio in the same category, athletically, as Harden and Curry. Yes, I love his crazy passes, and that those passes (at least on the highlight films) found their targets in the right timing. My take at the time was that Rubio wasn't the second coming of Pete Marovich, but of Jason Williams. For real, catch some Jason Williams mixtapes on youtube. Truth be told, I'd have been excited to see Rubio play for us, and move Russell off the ball. Russell is too undersized to be useful defensively against several NBA 2 guards, but we have Thabo to counter. So I saw that working out okay. Not perfect, but I thought it could work.

But, like I said, I remember watching Jason Williams play that way. Yeah, the dude would make sportscenter every week, and as a result I followed the kid, and found that he was hard to cheer for. The frustrations with him were the same with Russell; turnover prone, trying to do too much. Athleticism was their big difference (though I've always questioned weather or not Jason had what it took to win on a championship level. I'm talking drive/desire.)

So in my mind, from what little I've seen, Rubio is another Jason Williams. Excellent pass IQ. Excellent basketball IQ. But athleticism kept him from being elite.

And I always wondered if Jason's game was too gimmicky to win consistently. I've never seen that style of play win. Maybe it's because there isn't a large enough sample size, but maybe it's because that style doesn't win at the NBA level. I don't know.

I say all of this without looking back to compare stats and shooting percentages and such. We're talking Jax Eye Test here.

But, to bring this whole narrative back to the main point, Curry and Harden changed my mind when I saw their athleticism in the combine. So I know they have great athleticism. Which means my eye test isn't so great, or that they don't use their athleticism in a way that makes itself evident doing basketball. So I could be dead wrong about Rubio.

I guess until we get to see him play for a while, we won't know for sure.

Didn't Ricky lead the league in turnovers? I just don't think the risk was/is worth the reward.

Royce :@DanHarden his 36 percent his sophomore season: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/stats?teamId=9...

Rubio shot 42.3% in ACB play last year (22 games). Yet, he is universally classified as a poor shooter.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ricky-Rubio-11...

Warren :I think if you take the ball out of Westbrooks hands you lose some of the things that make him good.

Then, if you put the ball in his hands, you gain the thing that make him frustrating to watch. His dribbling, passing, and decision-making drive me crazy.

But, you're right, watching him zoom past a flat footed defender is fun...but he tries it too much, which is why having a true point guard giving him the ball when the time is right for him to break down his defender is my preference.

Why would you move Westbrook to the 2 if he struggles shooting the 3? I think if you take the ball out of Westbrooks hands you lose some of the things that make him good. Then draft another guy who can't shoot the 3 just so he can make some nice passes every now and then? I don't know, maybe I just really like Harden, but he seems like the logical choice to me.

@Dan
Harden his 36 percent his sophomore season: http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/teams/stats?teamId=9...

Durant shot 40% from the 3pt in college, Harden his fresh year shot 40%, but something happened in his soph year and he only shot 23%.

@Clark Matthews
I guess it's all a wait-and-see thing. If Harden is a key player in us winning 35-40 this year, I'll be happy. If in five years Harden isn't getting another contract and Rubio has made an All-Star team, we'll be sad.

@Royce

Oh, and if you want to convince me that I'll be happy watching Harden jack threes because he's as good as Paul Pierce, you obviously haven't watched me cringe at Paul Pierce jacking threes.

@Royce

If you think our biggest need was production from SG regardless of skill set, then just move RW over and, voila!, problem solved...and I get my point guard.

@Clark Matthews
Yes he absolutely does. Statistically, the Thunder was last in the league in production from shooting guard. So by position, he fills the Thunder's biggest need. OKC needs a lights out shooter, no doubt. But they don't need a guy that can ONLY do that. Harden does a little bit of it all. He was every bit the 3-point shooter Paul Piece was at KU, and that's with the line being a foot further back for Harden. He can shoot, he can defend and he can create. Drafting a straight shooter with the third pick would be insane, so Presti got a guy that can develop that skill better, but also is keen in several other areas.

Not too many D-League guys were All-Americans that averaged 20 ppg in two season in a tough basketball conference. And you are really on him about that asthma thing. It's never affected him - he was one of the top minutes per game guys in the PAC 10 both years there.

Look, I realize Rubio was a fascinating talent. But the reality is, he was and still is an incredible unknown. Everybody raved and salivated over his Olympic performances and his best game was like six points and four assists. I think he's a nice player. Life-changing franchise point guard? I have no clue. But the thing is, OKC had a the third pick and was ready to take someone that would help the team. If we learned anything with the Russell Westbrook pick, Presti is going to take his guy. If he thinks the guy is good and will help the team, he's going to take him.

Royce :@Clark Matthews And oh yeah, he fills the Thunder’s absolute biggest need.

Does Harden fill the team's biggest need? He plays the position, but is he really a lights out shooter? His numbers in college don't reflect that. His scouting report is that he does everything well but nothing great, and the D-League is littered with guys with that analysis written about them--that don't have asthma, even. Why does it make Harden a top-5 pick?

If he averages 15 points/game next year, I will happily eat my words, but right now I cannot get excited about him. With Rubio, though, his elite abilities made me excited enough that I would have patiently waited to watch them first hand.

I just ordered my 10-game weekend pack off the Thunder's pre-sale special!!

I'm so jacked up!!

I can't wait!!

The tix are in loud city, but I get 2 of 'em to 10 games for $200.00 and the seats aren't bad, really. It's a pretty good bang for my buck getting to see The Magic, Bucks, Celtics, Bobcats, Pacers, Warriors, Raptors, Jazz, Trail Blazers, and T-Wolves.

I love this game...

Like I've said before, I think the Thunder made the right choice, and I think Rubio staying in Europe is - financially - the right decision.

@Clark Matthews

I can't tell if you're doing this to kind of provide an alternate viewpoint, devil's advocate kind of thing, but calling Harden a lesser talent when you've watched about 5 Rubio games is pretty presumptuous

@Clark Matthews

Everything here is potential. Even though Rubio is playing professionally, no telling how he handles the NBA. Even the Olympic exposure isn't the same. Playing a team like Slovenia isn't close to playing NBA teams for 82 games (hopefully more) every year for a full career. Rubio could be a bust. Same could be said for Harden. No telling with him either. I know I'm excited about him. I think he fits our team very well and gives us a legitimate 2 who can score. That means the only position we have without a "big-time" scorer is the 5.

I just don't see that Rubio is head-and-shoulders above Harden and we would have been better off waiting (even if only to trade his rights). I'd rather get someone who fits what we need and go with that.

Yeah, I havn't been convinced by anyone that we could accurately compare Harden and Rubio in order to decide who had more talent. To me, Harden was definitely the best choice.

@Clark Matthews
It definitely could have turned out differently, but we don't know that either. We may have wasted a top five pick on a player that doesn't help us get better until MAYBE two years from now. Sounds to me like Rubio is an immature kid who wasn't ready for the NBA anyway. He should have never entered. I think he got caught up in his own hype.

It's not like James Harden is some chump. An All-American, a 20 ppg scorer while facing triple teams and the ability to make teammates better. And oh yeah, he fills the Thunder's absolute biggest need.

My take on the Rubio thing is A) who knows how it would have turned out if the Thunder had made the pick (getting to play with Kevin Durant might have been the spark that convinced him to come over immediately) and B) yay! Let's get all excited about getting a lesser talent because we know for sure that he'll be with the team for the next two years when our expectations should be low anyway.

Personally, I would have been fine waiting two years for Rubio because the team would have been a lot more exciting to watch with him running the show--and if Westbrook turns into a real PG over the next two years, Rubio's rights would still have had a lot of value.

James :Wonder if anyone has ever turned down playing in the NBA before? Especially after being drafted that high.

Denny Ferry did it for a year. He was drafted by the Clippers second overall and went to Italy until the Clippers traded him to Cleveland.

Fran Vazquez is still in Spain after Orlando drafted him at #11 about four years ago.

I just want to say I wanted Harden at pick 3 ever since lottery night when I knew we were going to be there. Well actually even before then, but whatever. I know a lot of people felt the same way - kudos to us.

I'm lovin' me some Harden at the moment.

Man, I don't envy the position of GMs because they have to deal with teenagers trying to make adult decisions.

Wonder if anyone has ever turned down playing in the NBA before? Especially after being drafted that high.

It really sounds the Rubio thing wasn't about the buyout and money.

From Yahoo: "But Rubio informed Kahn on Monday night that he would prefer to stay in his homeland for two more years to better prepare himself for the NBA. Kahn says DKV Joventut has agreed to trade Rubio to Regal FC Barcelona, where he will play until 2011."

I am very, very glad we passed on him.

@Jax Raging Bile Duct

I felt the same way about Thabeet. I just remember praying that Memphis wouldn't come to their senses and draft Harden. That was would have ruined my summer.

It's been a while since Q Richardson has been traded (almost 3 weeks). Maybe the Rockets can talk to Miami

@Brett

I was at home, and let out a HOLY $#!*, mostly because I couldn't believe they picked the guy we (the majority of commenters on this blog) were after. My wife just rolled her eyes at me.

The funniest thing about the draft to me, was that I was still surprised that Memphis took Thabeet. I knew they were going to do it, or at least I thought I did, but when they actually did it, I just laughed out loud with surprise.

I wouldn't mind getting Brent Barry. He's a solid player.

I was at the Buffalo Wild Wings on NW Expressway for draft night. I was the only one who cheered when we selected Harden (most everyone else was quite vocal with their "boos"). This was a big reason for me that Harden was the correct choice (besides that he fits our team). It's a HUGE relief knowing our team is in place and not scrambling to sign our player (or drafting four PGs, but who are we to judge...).

@Robert
I have talks with myself all the time....

I think it was Bill Simmons who tweeted last night that no one is more thankful for David Kahn than is Isaiah Thomas.

O Rubio, Rubio, wherefore art thou Rubio?
Deny David Kahn and refuse thy uniform;
Or if thou wilt not, be but sworn my love
And you'll no longer be a Timberwolf.

@Robert
Face palm. Clippers, not Rockets. Thanks for the heads up.

The rockets have been in talk with the rockets?