OKC talks with Millsap, Gortat; Danny Ainge finally gets his man
Darnell Mayberry reports the Thunder are talking with Paul Millsap:
The Thunder has reached out to representatives for Paul Millsap, the Utah Jazz restricted free agent forward, according to a source with knowledge of negotiations. Oklahoma City entered into preliminary talks with Millsap’s camp about 30 minutes into the start of free agency late Tuesday night. Teams were permitted to begin negotiating with free agents at 11 p.m. Central Time.Early discussions between the Thunder and Millsap’s representatives have been described as positive, but there is nothing concrete between the two sides. A follow-up conversation could take place later Wednesday …
… The Thunder is one of over a half dozen teams that have shown interest in Millsap in the opening hours of free agency, including a handful of teams that weren’t expected to make a run at him because of a lack of salary cap space.
Yes, I guess that’s somewhat interesting news, but it’s nothing shocking. So Oklahoma City called to talk to Paul Millsap, one of the top free agents on the market. No offer sheet has been signed, no offer has been made, just the two parties are talking about possibly taking the next step. But you’ve got to start somewhere. It looks less and less likely tha Utah will attempt to match an offer on Millsap though with today’s signing of Eric Maynor to a $3.1 million contract. Add that to Kyle Korver and Carlos Boozer exercising their options and the Jazz don’t have a lot of coin to spare.
(One thing to point out about Millsap: He was taken with the 47th pick in the 2006 Draft and obviously was a steal. But it’s not like he’s some sure-thing, high-profile power forward. Sure he played well in Carlos Boozer’s steed last year (13.5 ppg, 8.6 rpg), but how can we be sure that D.J. White isn’t the next Paul Millsap? White had just seven games last year and I thought he looked pretty good. So before we go bananas and sign a guy that had a solid half season to a multi-year, mega-buck deal, I think we need to evaluate what we’ve already got. Of course, I’m sure Sam Presti has already done this, so the point is, I don’t see Millsap in Thunder blue unless the price is VERY right for Oklahoma City.)
Add the Thunder to the list of teams interested in Gortat. I’m told OKC officials made contact with Gortat’s camp shortly after midnight.
Also, Robert Swift will finally play for Boston. Well, at least for the summer:
The Celtics also added free agent center Robert Swift to the roster. The former Oklahoma City/Seattle seven-footer, who joined the league straight out of high school, has always intrigued Ainge.
Dallas and Houston are desperate for a center that can help them compete with Lakers/Spurs. Dampier sucks in dallas (talk about one of the most overpaid players in the league – 12mil or so) and Yao is out maybe forever but at least all of next season. Cuban and Morey are about to have a tussle of Gortat.
@KingGondo
yeah, but they just don’t have the cap space. they don’t even have the option to be irrational, its not like they have bird rights on him
@Keith
no. boozer is HORRIBLE defensively. kev will lose his mind if he charts boozer on d. he’s absolutely awful. you cannot compete with him as your center, especially if green is the 4. we would just get killed inside.
i mean, unless you’re still mailing next year in. that becomes a habit, i wouldn’t advise that
@Keith
That is pretty much how I saw it- If Boozer works out, and is willing to re-sign for a whole lot less money than he was expecting- great. If not, it should be a fun season, and he will definitely be more productive in 09/10 than Nick would be. Hell, he would be an amazingly valuable trade chip come february for some aspiring contender if nothing else. I also think we could expect him to really bust his ass trying to get a big $ contract for next year.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with making Jeff Green the 6th man. It has worked for Manu Ginobili and the Spurs for years, and Jeff Green has a toolset just as good as Ginobili. He can fill in at multiple positions and gives us a huge spark off the pine. And just because he doesn’t start games doesn’t mean he can’t finish them. There is still a great chance for Green to get 35 minutes per game.
Paul Millsap is going to be a very solid player in the NBA for a long time. He will give us 18 and 10 on a regular basis, and he will play solid defense as well. If we can get him, we need to go for it. Sam Presti knows what he is doing, and hopefully he can pull off this deal.
I love Jeff Green as much as anyone, but there is nothing wrong with shaking things up a bit to help the overall scheme of things. We aren’t going to get the impact center we need this summer, so we might as well beef things up down low.
@Cody Thrasher
um, that sounds all well and good, except there are only so many minutes. the people that play in front of ginobli barely play because he plays all the minutes, just like a starter. even if we start millsap, playing him 20-25 a game isn’t worth it for the price, especially since he is somewhat redundant on the roster (admittedly better than collison and white, but still). and that’s all the minutes that would be available if you’re playing green 35 minutes. look at it this way, there’s 96 minutes up for grabs between SF and PF. Even if we pretend that collison and white don’t ever play, Durant takes 35-40 at SF, green takes the rest at SF and 22-27 at PF (if we’re giving him 35 minutes total), leaving only 21-26 for millsap. that’s just not enough playing time for the money we’d have to pay (especially since in this scenarion we’re paying collison and white to do nothing)
@nick
scenarion=scenarion … i hate making typos.
i also just realized that in that entire post i only capitalized Durant’s name and nothing else. he is that important, haha
@nick
aaahhhh!!! scenarion=scenario (in both). i’m an idiot
I think OKC is better off either signing Gortat or not signing anyone at all. Gordon is obviously a terrible idea and I think Sam Presti is smart enough to not pay around 10 mil a year for an undersized streaky shooting 2 guard who plays little defense after just spending the #3 pick on a player who plays the same position.
I don’t think this team should overpay for Millsap and I think we would have to in order to sign him away from the Jazz. The first reason is simply cap space. OKC is going to need plenty of it in the coming years when it comes time to resign KD and JG and then RW the year after. Also I’m not sure where Millsap would fit in with this team. As far as him giving us 18 and 10 on a regular basis, I don’t see that happening at all. This year he averaged 13.5 and 8.5 in 30 minutes and his minutes aren’t likely to increase a great deal. If you want to make the argument that he is young and going to obviously improve then the same could be said for JG, the current starter at the position who averaged 16.5 and 7 in 36 min a game. I’m not sure paying over 6 mil a year for another undersized 4 is the best idea when you have a rapidly improving JG currently starting along with young talent in Ibaka and White who haven’t had an opportunity to show what they can do yet. OKC is better off not spending any money for a PF and seeing how White and Ibaka develop this year and then if need be address the situation next offseason either through FA or one of the 2 likely lottery picks they have. OKC isn’t going to compete for a title this year and I think this year will be better spent evaluating some of the young talent on this team as opposed to stunting their growth by signing a player who in my opinion will only marginally improve the team and could potentially hurt the team’s ability to resign their young core in the future. Just my opinion though.
@Cody Thrasher
Did you really just say that Green has the toolset of one of the best slashing/scoring guards of the decade?
Durant is taking 40 of the 96 minutes to be shared between the forward positions. That leaves 56 minutes. How many of those do you need to give to Millsap and his fat contract? 30? That leaves 26 or so for Green, Collison, White, Thabo and whoever else. Then: how much are you going to pay Green when contract talks come up? Will that be enough to keep him if other teams want to offer him starter money and starter minutes? Keep in mind that in such a small market, cap space is at a premium; I can’t believe there are going to be many years when Presti is going to be paying the tax.
The Manu argument doesn’t really wash with me. Manu has always averaged 28-30 minutes a game, and skill-wise he’s always clearly been better than the guard he was playing behind. Bringing in his third (sometimes second) best player off the bench was a strategic decision by Pop that everyone bought into because it brought home titles. Odom is a better comp for the role Green would play, but the Odom situation was LA-specific: Odom was still able to log 30 minutes per game because Pau can play the 5 as well as the 4 allowing Odom and Ariza to still get their minutes while Bynum rests. Millsap should never be playing any position other than PF. Also, I think Odom might have complained a little more if the Lakers didn’t have a championship caliber team.
I would much, much rather sign Gortat or hold my cards and wait for a true 5. Fill the backup 4 with a Collison/Birdman-type, a solid energy/defense/rebounding guy that can be had for the MLE or less and save your cap space for the team nucleus.
@Sammy
haha, looks like we had similar thoughts on the matter
From HoopsWorld about David Lee:
The Grizzlies haven’t put a number on the table yet, and the rumor that the Knicks were even in the right ball park with a four-year $34 million offer are completely off base. Not even the other number being tossed around – five years and $50 million – will get you into a serious discussion with David Lee. In fact, our source told us, Lee’s camp is looking for five years and $60-$65 million before they’re willing to have a serious discussion.
That is ridiculous…anybody who would pay him that much is crazy…Does Lee realize only three teams can afford that and only one of them seems particularly enamored with him? Have fun in beautiful Memphis!!!
Just to add; if Gortat is out of reach for whatever reason, I would make a hard run at Camby. Camby can still play, his expiring contract combined with seasoned inside play would be an extremely valuable trading chip at the deadline, and the Clippers want to cut costs by getting rid of either Kaman or Camby. He’d be the perfect stop gap until next offseason if we can’t address the interior in the long term right now.
@Sammy
i’m alright with a camby stopgap. he actually played hard (and decently) for the clippers, and if you can play hard there you can play hard anywhere. he could actually teach someone like mullens a thing or two and not handcuff us past this year
Sammy, KD, Steve H -
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Only lowercase letters and numbers allowed (nickname issue)
@Kev
haha, wow kev, are they paying you or something
there was supposed to be a question mark at the end of that statement
@Jax Raging Bile Duct
you fight for your right to use upper case letters and symbols
@KD
I’m with you KD. Gortat or nobody…but I’m starting to think we’re better off with nobody so we can develop BJ at the 5 like you’re saying about the others at the 4. And ya I know he’ll prolly take more than a year to develop.
After this year I expect us to be a regular in the playoffs, and hopefully making a deep run in a few. But this is prolly the last year thunder fans will be patient with the team, so use it to gain a higher lottery pick. Give us 2 lottery picks next year and we’re better off for our run in the future, and we’ll have a better idea of our needs in the draft.
On a slightly related topic, when the thunder are below the cap the extra money just helps the bottom line, right? It would be great if the owners just gave Presti the salary cap every year and if he’s under then he can put it in the bank for when we’re making runs and need to go over. I’m not sure if it works that way but that’d be cool, and another reason to stay away from the FA market for one more year.
@james
mullens developing is not something to bank on. and i think the team should try to be competitive as possible, especially if it means grabbing gortat (another young guy to mature with out nucleus). losing really can become a habit.
gravatar note: i keep accidentally getting logged out, so i alternately have a picture and don’t. there are not two nicks. because i know you were all incredibly bewildered and curious about that phenomenon
Are we really sure about this? Last season, Millsap averaged 17.9 Points / 10.7 Rebounds per 40 Minutes. In games between Nov 21 and Feb 21 (the time period Boozer was hurt) that Millsap started, he averaged 16.5 Points / 10.2 Rebounds per 40 Minutes. I believe he would continue that level of rebound production, but you can get that from a number of hustle players around the league and for much cheaper than $8M or whatever Millsap ends up with (for example, Collison gave us a similar number last season.)
My point of contention is that he would continue to average that kind of point production. 18 points is awful optimistic. During that time period, Millsap was the third option behind Okur and a pass-first Williams. In OKC, he would be the third option (assuming we’re benching Green as you suggested) behind Durant and a pass-maybe Westbrook. I seriously doubt he would be able to maintain ~16.5 PPG level he had with the Jazz, more or less 18.
@nick
I’m not banking on Mullens developing into a regular. I’m just saying let’s start developing and PT helps that. By doing so we’ll have a better idea of what we need in the draft next year, and a better pick for a better group of players.
Pistons signed both Gordon and Villanueva for a total of $90 million over 5 years. $55 million to Ben, $35 million to Charlie.
I wonder what happens to Rip now. Didn’t they just fire Curry under pretense that he wasn’t getting along with Hamilton? I don’t see how Gordon and Rip operate on the floor together as starters unless Prince comes off the bench and Rip plays 3. Weird team.
@Jax Raging Bile Duct
It let me use capital letters, even though it says lower case. Didn’t try symbols…
Are you serious? They gave Charlie V 7 mil per year…….? Ha ha ha ha.
Charlie can score, no doubt about it, but he doesn’t rebound, doesn’t play defense, and he sure as hell won’t pass it to anybody else. Do you think there is a reason he’s been traded already once in his short career, and now been allowed to walk for nothing from the second team. He is a mid level exception guy at most (like 5 mil). There is a sucker born every minute.
Now that I think about it, between Ben Gordon and Charlie V, Rip Hamilton and Tayshaun will never see an open look unless it comes from Stuckey because his new teammates not named Stuckey will never pass it to them…ha ha ha.
@Kev
Uhhmm Kev, we’ve talked about this before. Isn’t it time to change YOUR gravatar now? It isn’t fitting to have one of our own with a gravatar of a Golden State Warrior now is it?
I can send you over some pics of Damien Wilkins or Earl Watson that would work good for you?
nah, I will stick with Curry – at least I didnt have a Thabeet one . . .
@KingGondo
It’s actually $55 million for Gordon, and $40 million for Villanueva.
Overpaying, much?
Wow. I knew free agency was a joke but I had no idea how soul crushing it could be for a team.
If we can get Millsap, then we should. PERIOD!
There’s a price at which something, anything becomes too expensive. It’s a buyers market with so few teams having money. Why flush it down the toilet by overpaying? We COULD get Milsap by overpaying, but why? He’s not the MISSING PIECE or anything, he’s just a solid blue collar Power forward who plays good defense. He’s only a moderate step up above Nick Collison really, who is already under contract. Also, Nick can actually play some 5, Milsap is barely 6-8 in shoes, he can’t man the pivot. That’s why he fell in the draft a few years ago.