Daily Thunder.com

@nick
The argument really has been over degree of contribution, hasn't it? Ha. We probably aren't far off at all. I think he's a fine player for 5 million. That's backup or bad contract money in this league easily, and he'd be a great backup.

Oh, and Randolph was traded to Memphis, talk about a team trying to burn itself to the ground.

The Wiz have always been funny in a sad way. They keep thinking Arenas is a superstar, not realizing he's basically Ben Gordon. And how does a team sign an injured player (as in, not even healthy at the time of signing) to the largest contract possible? It's like the Wiz aren't sure they want to be the Isaiah Knicks (bad contracts for everybody) or the Clippers (let's not succeed but keep everyone anyway).

@Keith
agreed on the last bit. i don't think we have all that different an opinion on krstic actually, i just said something a bit too positive. i don't think he starts on a contender, but he can be a rotation player. i'm regretting my use of the word "big". honestly, the rest was kinda arguing for argument's sake. but the clippers are an entirely different animal than any other team, as they are coached by an utter moron who quite literally brings out the worst in players. and they had zach randolph.
side note: what's funny is that the wizards actually think they can contend if everybody's healthy. i agree that they can't. and i was wrong before- the nets didn't have kmart with krstic, which was part of the problem. if they actually had some toughness at the 4, they might have been able to contend. we definitely agree that we need toughness inside (i think we agree on that at least)

I would hope that perception that Presti wouldn't do anything to hurt his "best friend" Denny Ferry is just a perception. If Anderson Varejao is a player that would help the Thunder, and I think he is, I would hope that Presti wouldn't consider if it would harm his colleague from the Spurs days when deciding whether or not to offer the Brazilian big man.

Can we at least agree he has the best comb-over in the league?

@nick
Both Carter and Jefferson were great scorers, that can't be argued. And I wasn't arguing that the team was very good, I was arguing that they had very good players. Obviously you can have very good players and still not be good (Clippers are a prime example). Also, playing with Kidd is very much like playing with Chris Paul. Even if you aren't running the break, Kidd will get you the ball in a lot better position than any other PG in the league.

The Nets were built a lot like the Wizards are now. They had 3 very good players, but no one took them seriously as a contender. The Wiz are never going to win a championship as they are constructed, just as the Nets never did (and the Nets had better players). Krstic's ppg were probably inflated, that's all. He's never been a good rebounder nor an imposing defender.

@Keith
Easy.

@Keith
really? two other double team worthy stars? if they had 2 double team worthy stars and one of the best point guards ever, don't you think they would have contended? you can't argue that the nets were terrible, and then argue that they were really good so his stats got inflated. jefferson was never a double team worthy star, and carter wasn't at that point either. and its not like krstic was on the receiving end of a bunch of fast break passes from kid- he scored on the pick and pop, which does not take jason kidd to run.

@Lefty
All we really can do is hope to draft or fleece a better center in the future, just like all the other top teams out there.

@Keith
i know that the nets were swept by the heat. i didn't say that he WAS a big contributor on a contender, but that he could be. also, as you said, krstic was young on those teams and was only supposed to improve. obviously injuries have derailed that somewhat, but he was still considered a good center with a good chance to improve. i specifically remember a bit in nba live 07 where steve kerr said he was one of the better centers in the league. that's right, i dropped nba live 07 as supporting evidence. anyway, big contributor doesn't even necessarily mean a starter, just a rotation player. james posey was a big contributor for the celtics, and he played, what, 20-30 minutes a game? perhaps a shouldn't have used the word big, but i do believe that a team can compete with him as a contributor. does that sound better? i didn't say i wanted him to start, and i did say that we need more.

@Keith
I'll defer to you on Krstic pre-injury. I'm a new NBA fan, so I don't have any shame in that. I'm mostly looking at it from a building stand-point, and right now I feel like money is one of the biggest issues. We have a proven commodity in Krstic, and though it may not be the best, and could stand to be upgraded in the future, the money is right. For sure there is a time when you have to spend money on a good player, but I'm assuming (maybe wrongfully) that we're saving that money for Durant and Westbrook and Green. In which case, we don't want to get bogged down by another lackluster center. If that's not the right way to think about this then, like I said, I'm willing to defer to someone that knows about the game. I'm still learning, and I'm willing to get the knowledge from anyone willing to be patient. ;)

I'm just on board with the long-term patience approach to building this team, so I guess I'm willing to let Krstic be the center until someone comes along to take it from him.

@Lefty
To be sure, Krstic is an incredible upgrade over Swift/Petro/Sene. And I wasn't really addressing the contract issue, so perhaps we are in agreement. I just feel some of us tend to overrate our players because we like them and the team (something we are all prone to). Is Krstic the best we can do right now for the cost? Sure, and he's not terrible. But is the hole at backup C bigger than the hole at starting C when we are talking about a contender? Not even close.

People tend to forget that pre-injury Krstic was only a 16 and 7 guy at his best (which could have been inflated by only playing 26 games). Those aren't very good numbers for a starting center who benefited a lot from playing with Kidd (greatest passing PG of the last generation) and two other double-team worthy stars.

@Keith
I think maybe we agree, but we're saying it in different ways...

I agree that there is a huge difference between the first and second tier, and I definitely agree that we need to be looking to improve the team by finding better players. If we got to a point where Krstic was a backup that would definitely be great. I was just trying to say that at the moment, considering the cost of a top-tier center and the availability of them, we're not too bad off with Krstic for now. We have a few young guys that might be able to pan out for us, but we have to (if, that is you believe in this kind of thing) keep the franchise's history with centers in mind, and finding one like Krstic for the price we got him is pretty phenomenal.

Even when we found a good deal on one of the best centers going (Chandler), it turned out to be another bust for the team. For now, I don't mind being patient in the center search, because at least we're not still stuck with Swift/Petro/Sene.

@Keith

agreed . . .

@Lefty
Perhaps second tier, but how much does that really say given the great disparity between the top and second tier players. My whole real point is that I would not be shopping for a backup center, or backup anything at this point. We have a ton of players, but not a lot of starter caliber players. Krstic would be a tremendous backup, but only a so-so starter, same with most of our guards.

I mean, how much do we improve by picking up someone to eat up Collison's 10-15 minutes at backup center? This team isn't going to improve with backups, because the biggest holes are in the starting lineup.

@Keith
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to put him on the level of Dwight Howard or Shaq, but I do think that given more time with the team, he could be a very good (offensive) center. If Mullens turns out to be a good defensive player or even Ibaka becomes a shot blocker, and they can play well with Krstic, I really think that could be a great combo. Like I said, if we can upgrade I'm all for it, but there are so few good centers out there, and I really believe Krstic could be put in that second tier of talent without much of a stretch.

@nick
One, NJ wasn't a contender that year. That would be like calling Detroit or Chicago a contender this year. Two, NJ was swept by the Heat. I don't see how being the starting center for a team swept in the first round makes you good enough to "be a big contributor on a contender."

@Lefty
Krstic playing center for a contender is a misconception. He was a rookie starter in the 04/05 season. In that season, NJ won 42 games. In his sophmore year, NJ won 49 games, but was never considered capable of challenging any of the top teams in either conference.

New Jersey in general hasn't been considered a contender since 2003, which was before Krstic joined. I'm not trying to bash Krstic, as he is a fine player, but no one is going to convince me that a team can win a title with him starting at the 5. LBJ couldn't do it this year with a taller version of Krstic in Ilgauskas. New Jersey couldn't do it with 3 legitimate stars in Kidd, Carter, and Jefferson.

@Lefty
yeah, i think a lot of people forget that. i specifically remember him having a good series against shaq and miami that had people really high on him. i'm not sure if he can regain that form, but it would be great if he could. but he was playing with kenyon martin in new jersey, who gave them the interior toughness that we sorely lack. so although i do think he can be a big contributor on a contender, we do need something/someone more

Krstic has already proven he can play center for a contender (when he was in New Jersey), so I'm not real sure we necessarily need to replace him. Obviously, if we find a center who is an obvious upgrade that would be great, but as far as I'm concerned, a good back-up/ defender to share minutes with would be the best answer. Krstic is a better center than he is given credit for, and with a full year playing with the rest of the team, he could be really good.

@KingGondo
I agree, he had some really nice games last year and I think that he will put more of those together. An article I read last week said that he is working heavily on his jumpshot, which he said was not up to par for him.

I'm hoping that one of the other big men they have can step up. As KD noted, Harden can really pass the ball and run an offense. That gives them the ability to go really big and create matchup problems, a la Kirstic, Ibaka, Green/Durant, Thabo and Harden.

@Keith
I actually like Krstic a lot, and think he has a great chance to get back to his pre-injury form this year. His defense is underrated, too. As long as he likes playing in OKC, I hope we re-sign him when his contract's up next year.

@Nix
I couldn't believe how witchy with a b the Seattle anchor was.

Hedo is the new Peja...Can still shoot, but over paid.

Also...

I didn't find the News 9 video too bad. He could have done better, but it was fine.

Haha, sorry dude, that's funny!

@okcnba
Look one story down. :)

Here's an interesting link on Serge Ibaka I thought you may found interesting Royce. http://basket-spot.blogspot.com/2009...ic-to-nba.h...

I agree with the above. It's really difficult to sign a quality player at any position for one year. They have to be fairly desperate or completely unproven. It's even more so for big men.

Even Shaqtus is looking for 3 more years after this one.....

Andy Varaejo is a Really a lot like Collison. An banger and around the rim guy, but really mostly just a blue collar post player. Neither blocks a ton of shots, both would likely be double double guys if they played starters minutes, but are better suited to bang guys off the bench. Andy doesn't get the Orebs as well, but he fouls a bit less. If you already have Colly, Varejao is really redundant, and doesn't change anything except create a logjam.

@KingGondo
Don't you mean that STARTING center spot?

@okcnba
I disagree on Calderon, he's a solid Nash-like PG who just happens to play on a relatively slow team. He shot nearly 50 40 100 percentages last year, ridiculous efficiency for a PG. I'll admit that outside of Calderon, Bosh, and now Hedo that the team stinks, but each of those guys individually is more than solid at their respective positions.

@KD's scoring average
I think 30 isn't out of the question at all. This comes down to two points. One, I think he'll be even more efficient, netting him 2-3 more points on the same number of shots. Two, I don't think we'll get blown out as much and that KD will be needed big time down the stretch. As much as I want his minutes to go down a bit, I don't have qualms about him being able to handle it. Remember, only recently have star players been playing fewer minutes. If it was good enough for Michael, Magic, Larry, and even LBJ up until last year, I think it's good enough for KD. But, with us being closer in games, KD is going to see a few more shots taken per game. No more getting pulled in the 4th because we are down by 30.

Yeah, I think it'll be interesting as to what KD averages. It doesn't really matter in the end, as long as we win more games. If he can score the same number of points with greater efficiency, then I think that improves our team immensely.

However, I think the biggest variable in our success this year will be the SG position, both offensively and defensively. If Harden can provide a consistent 10-15 ppg, and Thabo continues to lock down on the opposing team's best scorer, I like our odds of getting 35 wins this year.

Now if we could only do something about that backup center spot...

Royce :@KingGondo One thing I was thinking about recently (and I may write about this) is the idea of signing somewhat decent players to one-year deals, but overpaying them some. With how valuable expiring contracts are and so many teams positioning for the 2010 free agency run, signing say, Joe Smith or Antonio McDyess to a $3-4M deal for one season could put you in position to make a trade at the deadline for a guy you want.
Crazy thought or does it make sense?

Makes sense, but it's just not something you see that often. Most single year contracts are given to last chance players who need to prove they can still play or that they are capable of changing their role.

Most players (and their agents) are more interested in total value packages. I think you'd have to do more than over pay by a little to really draw someone into a single year deal. 6M / 3Y is more valuable than $3.5M / 1Y just because of the security of guaranteed contracts. This is especially true for players who aren't likely to increase their value after the season.

In other words, it makes a degree of sense for teams to sign players to contracts like that. I think the players are what keeps it from happening more often. That being the case, this is why you see smart teams staggering their big contracts, use Boston's Allen / Pierce / Garnett contracts as an example.

@K
No they won't'. With that signing they've only got 8 guys that can really be on heir roster, only 4 of which are legit starters, with their best player likely playing out of position. They have no depth which was their akilies (spelling?) heel last year, and Colderone (spelling?) can't do crap without a descent back up PG. They will be just as bad as they were last year.

@Brian
Actually, I think Hedo might be the guy that lets the Raptors contend this year. I like that signing for them.

That's kind of what I was thinking, too. If he has another season where he is the only consistent scoring threat, it could be ugly. I think Harden will prove to be a great add, sounds like KD was impressed with his passing abilities in addition to everything else - sounds like we may have found a good guard tandem. And hopefully, at least one of the Thunder's many big men will actually make an impact.

We'll see

I see KD averaging about the same as last year, but with an even higher efficiency. I could see him scoring 26-28 a game, but I think if he's putting up 30, we're not doing well as a team. We're our best when Jeff Green, Russell and KD are all scoring together and with Harden in the mix, I think the four need to complement each othe more than ever.

While I have no doubt Durant will improve this season, I think the addition of a few more pieces will take some of the presure off of him to be the sole producer. I'm guessing that if he adds ppg, it will be just a few.

In that camp interview, it looked like he had packed on some pounds, which is a good sign for his post game and his defensive game. I think Durant will make the most improvement on those two fronts. I'm also certain that he will continue to improve his decision making - I'm looking forward to watching team to's go down next year.

Under . . .

First of all, he would have to average 20% more than he did this year . . . that's quite a hike for one year . . .

two - we've already had a discussion about minutes - he really needs to play less . . . he semmingly played 40+ minutes in non-blowout contests - I see that number going down . . .

@Royce
Definitely makes sense. I have no doubt that Presti would make a FA deal if the right one came along, but I don't expect any moves until the season gets started.

There's no guarantee that a better deal will come along once the season starts, but doing NOTHING is better than signing a guy like Turkoglu to a max contract.

By the way, I had an interesting debate on another forum--what are the odds that KD leads the league in scoring this year? His scoring increased over 6 ppg from his rookie season, and he's been working hard this summer to improve his post game (which will probably equate to more free throw attempts). Also, Westbrook will be a better distributor, and Harden should help create spacing on the floor and take some of the focus off of KD.

Sooooo...
30 ppg. Over or under? I say over.

Henry Abbott looks at the summer league rosters:
http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-42-26/The-Ba...

@Mike
Haha, good reference.

It made sense in my head, but I couldn't tell if I was just being stupid. I think I'll expand on this idea either today or tomorrow.

@Royce
Makes a ton of sense. Veteran big man especially are worth a ton as the season moves on. Presti has already shown what he is capable of by dangling some expiring contracts and it should be an annual move if we're just sitting on used cap space.

Isn't it true that if you don't use it... you lose it? (40 yr old Virgin anyone?)

@ Royce
Whats funny about all of this to me is how very few teams have patience. Signing Turkoglu is not going to put the Raptors into contention. Bryan Colangelo knows that Bosh is going to leave in 2010 so why is he wasting his money on a 30 year old forward who was inconsistent during the season and only able to be effective because of Rashard Lewis's ability to hit threes and Dwight's ability to play the pick and roll game. If Colangelo was smart, he would of saved that money for 2010 and tried to sign a second tier FA like Dirk or Joe Johnson because he definitely wont be able to sign Wade LBJ or Bosh.
It happens every year where teams overpay for OK players and then watch them go down the tube the next year (I.E. Udrih, Milicic).
My thing about this whole idea is that i dont think european players are tough enough to carry teams. Yeah its nice to sign Turkoglu to be a complimentary player to Bosh, but the Turk isnt a star player. Bosh needs a sidekick like Baron Davis who can run Colangelo's up tempo system in Toronto. I would hope that everyone wants OKC to save there money and just sign one veteran player to help out the team and use the money they have right now in a year or two when they are ready to contend and only missing one piece.
Paul Millsap? Are you kidding me??

@KingGondo
One thing I was thinking about recently (and I may write about this) is the idea of signing somewhat decent players to one-year deals, but overpaying them some. With how valuable expiring contracts are and so many teams positioning for the 2010 free agency run, signing say, Joe Smith or Antonio McDyess to a $3-4M deal for one season could put you in position to make a trade at the deadline for a guy you want.

Crazy thought or does it make sense?

Varejao is overpriced, and I'd be extremely surprised if we sign anybody at this point. Let Portland overpay for David Lee, and I'm fine with Utah keeping Millsap if they're willing to pay him $8-10 million a year.

What has consistently blown my mind during the FA period has been Dallas's behavior. Signing Gortat for a significant amount (with Dampier still on the payroll, no less), and offering Jason Kidd a 3-year deal worth over $25 million? Apparently Brandon Bass wants a big payday, too. Guess Cuban's not feeling the effects of the recession too badly, eh?

At this point, I can totally understand why Presti prefers trades to free agency. $50 million for Ben Gordon? $25 million for Jason Kidd? $53 million for Turkoglu? No thank you.