Daily Thunder.com

@J.G.
Another voice of reason. Thank you for seeing the light with me. Be patient and wait for a stronger draft when more than 2 centers will be drafted in the first round...

Deandre Jordan was drafted in the 2nd round last year. His standing reach and wingspan are the same and Thabeets, and he is much better offensively and super young. Just goes to show with our scouting we can find someoen that will mature into a nice big like Jordan has the possibility to. I really wish we would have gotten him last year when he was sliding. I like DJ White alot, but we have too many PF's and could have used a true center and I really think he is going to be pretty good.

@Steve H
Thabeet is not the best center prospect the draft will offer in the coming years.

Next year's draft will have 5-6 legit center prospects with more complete games, from Cole Aldrich to Greg Monroe to Solomon Alabi to even Jerome Jordan, AJ Ogilvy and even Duke signee Mason Plumlee, all are 6'11 or higher and possess both an offensive and defensive game.

Impatience in the rebuilding effort is what typically makes team mire in mediocrity. When was the last time the Bucks completely overhauled their roster, traded away their biggest assets and followed a serious plan towards rebuilding for 3-4 years, because that's what it will take to go from mediocre to awful to serious contender in the modern NBA.

Unless you get handed a gift (Pau Gasol) or you can acquire two All-Star pieces to compliment another All-Star player from two teams who are looking to implode their teams and start over (Boston).

But no, Thabeet is not even close to being the best center prospect the draft will have in the next 2 years, let alone 3 to 5.

I'll just reserve the Thabeet is a bust tag until atleast Summer League.

Stevem we have to agree to disagree -

we need offense, and Thabeet provides NONE of that - plus , I have seen nothing that indicates that he has a strong work ethic, so that means that he may never improve offensively - you can't draft a project at #5 unless you KNOW he's going to work and work . . .

I think he's headed for bust city . . .

If he's truly a bust than 5 years (!) can be very expensive. And, not all big men signings are injury prone. Your urgency is really what we don't need and causes irrational decisions.

@Kev
By the way- I'm not a particularly big fan of Thabeet- and would never consider taking him ahead of Harden or Curry. I do think that he is the best center prospect we are likely to have a chance of landing in the draft in the coming years of anticipated mid-level picks. Gortat could be solid, but would likely cost us 6mill or more per, and that would actually be a cheap price to pay for a descent center. Kamen? Camby? Okur? Those guys all run at least 10 mill a year, and invariably come with the health issues that come with being an "experienced" big man. That list of Sonic "big men busts" consists of three guys who never played college ball in the US- much less three years at UConn. Thabeet has been injury free as far as I know, and barring injury, is guaranteed to block and alter a lot of shots in the paint. We could really, really use that, and for what a #5 pick makes his first five years in the league, sounds like a bargain to me.

good point - signing Durant is key - he's not going to stick around if we only win 46 games in the next two years . . .

Im not saying to draft Thabeet, but everything else Steven said I agree with. Who cares if we don't draft a center in THIS draft anyway we could always get one thru FA or trade so that to me isn't even the issue.

I'm saying with more assets we could actually use some of them in trade to get us a veteran. It isn't lost on me that this is a rebuilding team, but just like with Lebron, Presti has to build a contender sooner rather than later so we can have a chance at resigning Durant......not only to resign Durant but to entice other FA's to start to give OKC a look when signing a FA contract.

@Kyle
But from here on out, we will be looking at mid-level draft picks, and less and less available cash for free agents as we re-sign our core players. That sounds like a recipe for mediocrity to me- something like the perpetual cycle the Bucks find themselves in. Like most everybody else around here, I have great faith in Presti's judgment. Let's just see what he does in the coming months- my guess is big things.

Kyle :Sorry but not to me. No way you can swing it that makes me believe Thabeet is the answer for us…
Something that seems to leave all Thunder fans and news outlets… This is a rebuilding process, and yes I know what you are saying steve, it doesn’t have to be SEVERAL years. But what the celtics did, turn it around in one year, just doesn’t happen.
If Thabeet isn’t the answer, don’t force the issue. There will be more centers in next years class and free agency. I say we get the best players to make us better this year, and get a center over the next year. I’m tired of people just looking at need and not talent. It doesn’t matter if you have a need for center if you fill it with someone that wont fill that need… Look at the sonics of years past, every year they needed a center. You know what they did? They kept forcing the issue (Swift, Sene, Petro… sound familiar now?) Every year they were left with the hole because they tried taking a center instead of realizing it wouldn’t help them if he wasn’t good at all.

the voice of reason . . . thank you . . .

Sorry but not to me. No way you can swing it that makes me believe Thabeet is the answer for us...

Something that seems to leave all Thunder fans and news outlets... This is a rebuilding process, and yes I know what you are saying steve, it doesn't have to be SEVERAL years. But what the celtics did, turn it around in one year, just doesn't happen.

If Thabeet isn't the answer, don't force the issue. There will be more centers in next years class and free agency. I say we get the best players to make us better this year, and get a center over the next year. I'm tired of people just looking at need and not talent. It doesn't matter if you have a need for center if you fill it with someone that wont fill that need... Look at the sonics of years past, every year they needed a center. You know what they did? They kept forcing the issue (Swift, Sene, Petro... sound familiar now?) Every year they were left with the hole because they tried taking a center instead of realizing it wouldn't help them if he wasn't good at all.

@Steve H
Sounds like a plan to me.

@Vince
I ENTIRELY agree with your assessment- too many GOOD players on this team, with just a couple GREAT role players needed to make us a complete team. The argument that we should try to patiently acquire the remaining pieces of the Thunder puzzle over the next few years is completely lost on me. I see no reason not to act now while we have all these assets in place. We need a high percentage shooter at the 2 spot, a defensive presence in the middle, and a power forward that can score in the post, play some defense, and rebound north of the 6+ per game we currently get from the likes of Collison and Green. What do you think of this idea- Draft Harden with the 3rd pick. Do our damndest to acquire either Lee,Boozer or Milsap through free agency, and try to pry the 5th pick away from Washington to land Thabeet? We could offer them either Watson or Collison, the 25th pick and our first rounder next year for Thabeet and an unwanted expiring contract(s) that clears cap space for the Wizards in 2009. I keep reading that they are looking to trade down with the 5th pick. That looks like a win/win to me, we put all the missing pieces in place immediately, and STILL have PHX's unprotected pick next year and a maturing Ibaka to look forward to.

@ Nick Collison
I love Sbarros! That sucks!

@p
I agree! This dude was hard-working...ehh(dirty) and defense minded. I'd love to have an old-school player, (with a two rings), on our bench.

@GAP
here, here!

@ all of yall
only 218 hours to go!(yup...I'm boarderline obsessed, as you can see!)
I hope Presti is eating his brain food. We can't afford to screw this up.

Can we just have a link every day to Nick Collison's twitter? You missed some priceless ones Royce (I mean there are so many you put two and there are still more)

"I'm in the car while my little girl is watching strawberry shortcake in the backseat. They should have used this tactic at gitmo.

8:39 AM Jun 14th
On the boat on lake washington with a few of my dudebros.nice little saturday....might go to home depot..I don't know..I might not have time

3:42 PM Jun 13th
Anyone hiring? I just ate myself out of the league....."

@Vince
Actually Vince, I think there's quite a few more players you're forgetting that can be bought out, not extended or have expiring contracts after next season. I believe Thabo's and Livingston's contracts expires next year, DJ's and Weaver's can be chosen to not be extended and Krstic's can also be bought out with Collisons. So there is a good deal of flexibility there if some individuals just really outperform their expectations and make others expendable.

I definitely agree with you regarding three good players for one great player...it's just that trade rarely ever happens. The Spurs model is basically one superstar talent, one all-star worthy talent, one game changing talent and then above-average role players with very specialized talents.

The problem with the Thunder's current roster is that the superstar is a SF and not a post player, the all-star worthy talent is a PG and not a post player, the game changing talent MIGHT be a post player, but is a tweener who would rather play with his face to the basket instead of his back. Basically, we don't have a Thunder center or at least a game changing post player with least two specialized aspects to his game (shot-blocking and rebounding, post-moves and passing, etc).

Now the roster will become very, very crowded if Desmond Mason is resigned, Ibaka somehow makes a giant leap in development and becomes NBA ready (doubtful, but it'd be awesome) and all of the draft picks and current players pan out (also, doubtful, unfortunately).

But I will say that from July 1st of this year until July 1st of next year, will pretty much decide the Thunder's fate for the next 5 years.

I call dibs on the Rumble tattoo!

(and by 'championship team' I mean down the line, not necessarily in 2011.)

@J.G.

I agree for this season. You've got a solid 1-12 rotation there, that can reasonably be expected to win 30-40 games, and only improve. But what do you do next summer with the two first-rounders and a (maybe) NBA-ready Ibaka? None of those 12 you listed is a buyout candidate with the possible exception of Collison, who would more likely be traded.

Again, as far as problems go, having too many assets is like having too many girlfriends. But I think the larger questions are -- how do you translate that "flexibility" into a better core and out of those 12-14 guys, is there a 8-man rotation there that can win a championship in the future? And, honestly, I don't think so. I think we need some upgrades. So moving three good players for one better one is what we should be aiming for, because we have the depth (now and in the future) and right now the cap space. If you put a top-40 player acquired in trade next to KD and fill in the rest with the guys we have now and the guys coming in 2010, I think THAT's more likely to be a championship team.

Laimbeer quiting after the season started may be suspect...but it may have been to ensure his friend / former teammate Rick Mahorn got the coaching job and his other assistant got the GM job. If that figured into it then I don't mind.

So maybe you at least briefly look at Fesenko in Utah, a Gortat type body but can he learn to behave corectly? There is not much buzz about him and yet he showed some progress year 1 to 2 and he could he obtained cheaply. On the final year at the minimum but with restricted free agent rights I think.

@dj
A center of Bogut or Okafor's caliber isn't saying as much as you would think. Bogut is solid but mostly without note. Okafor is a good rebounder who isn't a great rebounder who isn't quite there offensively. For the cost of Bogut or Okafor, you could by Gortat (just as good a rebounder as the two mentioned, and better defender) more than two times over. I think if Presti sees Gortat as a Tyson Chandler-type starting center, a double double guy who can guard the best bigs in the league, then he will grab the guy.

@MartzMimic
The Spurs model is to have the best big man since Shaq, two perimeter player who can draw a double team, and a group of solid player who absolutely know their role. San Antonio uses it's bench more than other teams because it has the main pieces to pull it off. But even then, they shorten the bench as much or more than anyone when big games roll around. Part of the reason they have been utilizing their bench so much lately is because their best players are getting old and need more rest. That shouldn't be an issue with our team.

I don't think Presti even tries to sign Gortat. There will be a lot of teams offering him the full mid-level exception. That's a lot of money for a long time for a good back up center with no offensive game. I think (hope) Presti is saving his cap space, expirings & extra picks for some opportunistic trade that nets a center of Bogut's or Okafor's caliber.

@Vince
You're forgetting that Presti compiled this roster so that it would be very, very flexible. Thabo can easily switch over to the backup SF, and Weaver can play PG, SG or even SF since he's 6'6. Collison and Krstic can spend time at PF or C, etc.

I think Maynor will be gone at 25, but if we get a comparable backup like Patty Mills, who you can bring along slowly and we sign Gortat (PLEASE, please spend some money on a legit defensive big man, Presti), then that means we are two deep or more at every position, with multiple (at least three) expiring contracts after this year that I can't see the Thunder re-signing.

If the starting lineup is Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Green, Gortat (though, Krstic probably keeps this until mid-way through the season or they split time), with a backup rotation of Livingston/Mills, Weaver, Thabo, DJ White/Collison, Krstic...then it doesn't get much better than that in terms of depth and quality, 1-12. And I'd assume that that starting 5 would more than be able to compete, thus the reserves would actually be able to hold, if not, increase a lead.

And I left off Wilkins, Atkins and Watson as I honestly expect them to be moved or bought out, or if not, their contracts expire this year. Plus, you're all forgetting that the D-League exists for this very reason if needed. Get Mills, Livingston, Weaver, White minutes for them to develop if the roster is overcrowded (though, I honestly expect some buyouts if the draft and free agency go as well as planned).

I don't mind stockpiling talent. To follow in the Spurs' model we need a solid bench, which was a glaring weakness last year. How many leads did we lose in the late third and early fourth quarters when the subs came in?

@Vince

I'm very high on Shawn Livingston, but as of yet, he's not physically capable of playing a large number of minutes. DJ White is in a similar boat, since this next year will practically be his rookie year. Both those guys coming off health issues, played really well. They need a full season coming off the bench playing 15 to 20 minutes a game to get acclimated to the full swing of things.

Ibaka is not yet NBA ready. He's athletic enough, just not refined enough.

Anyway, all that to say that I think you're about right. But I see this problem being bigger after this next season is over.

I just hope we keep Livingston. I think he's severely under-rated right now in all the talks of the Thunder's needs. I think he should be our starting PG eventually. But maybe that's just me.

Stockpiling assets is definitely useful, but at some point those assets must turn into something. We are likely to have more players than we can use, but our talent level is still questionable. Durant, Green, and Westbrook are great talents, for sure, but are any of our frontcourt players good enough to start on a playoff team, any of our SGs? We need to pull the trigger on these guys to land someone established who can make a difference in the starting lineup, not off the bench. Year three of Durant becoming a superstar, of Green being the solid sidekick, and hopefully a jump in year two of promising Westbrook. Teams win or lose with their starters, and we need to begin starting a competitive first 5.

nick :
Good to see Austin making headlines. Or at least his lip. Twiggy isn’t an adjective I’ve heard before, but that sums him up pretty well I suppose.
He once got hurt in practice and later that night told some of the team that he needed surgery and was out for the year. That was fun. Probably not doing that now.
I probably sound jealous and bitter there, so here’s the positive on him: he really could be a good offensive player in the pros, he’s really gifted. But KD looks like an Olympic weightlifter next to him, so he should probably work on that.

Ya know, Kevin turned out to be pretty darned tough. With his thin frame you might think he would be susceptible to snapping like a twig in confrontation with the big galoots. But he took a number of shots thruout the season and kept right on playing.

Shaq once did a pulldown on him that I thought would put KD's lights out. But he got right back up and went on. And in another away game (forgot which one) KD took a hit near the baseline while in mid-air and came down - must have been nearly three feet - hard on the court. It made a loud thwack - the crowd actually went "aaah" as if they felt the pain. I thought they were going to have to carry Kevin off the court. But he just got right back up and continued playing like normal.

Turned out, it was not until late in the season that hey actually got an injury. Simply because he stepped on another players foot who fell in front of him and rolled his ankle. Then for safety sake, he had to stay out for several weeks. But he healed very quickly. Except for that one unfortunate event, he would have gone the whole season w/o injury (only the usual minor dings).

I'm telling ya, he may not look it, but KD is one tough hombre. He can mix it up, take the hits, and just keep on going.

@Vince
I look at Portland and I would have to disagree just a bit because of all the assets they've stockpiled with draft picks as well and with all that I believe creates flexablity for us to move in any direction.... especially with all of the tweeners we have on the team.

The more talent the better...we could decide who to keep after some healthy competition with our current players over the summer and in training camp. And with a stockplile of talent we could easily facilitate trades for veterans who fit our long term goals.

@Vince
Exactly.

Russ asks:
"Abt to workout. Any breakfast suggestions??"

Dennys!!! Grand Slam!

One of the problems we have right now is we've got too many assets (I realize, as problems go, it's not a bad one to have). Let's say we sign Gortat and pick Harden and Eric Maynor (this is for argument's sake, it doesn't matter exactly who). Our rotation is then:

1. Westbrook/Maynor
2. Harden/Thabo
3. Durant
4. Green/Collison
5. Gortat/Krstic

So, we're basically benching Livingston (or the #25) and Weaver; DJ White won't play much this year, either. Not to mention there's no room for Ibaka this season (or next) or the two 2010 picks next season -- and at least one (and very possibly two, since Phoenix is not a guaranteed playoff team this year) of those picks will likely be lottery picks.

So, I really, really think a trade of some kind makes the most sense -- hopefully a 3-for-1 kind of deal for an established player. Whether a decent one is available, I don't know. But for everyone on the board who wants to make FA signing A and B and buy picks or use the ones we have, we're going to wind up next summer with 13-14 guys for an 8-9 man rotation. Stockpiling assets works least well in basketball as opposed to other sports, because successful teams have set rotations.

@GAP
Well, my thought has been - once you figure out what you want to do at No. 3, then you'll know what you want to do at No. 25. I've got a few guys highlighted that could be there. I'll be sure to let you know in the next nine days...

@KD
I thought the same thing.

Fox sports finally has a mock draft and apparently it has been updated this morning. . . yet with the 25th pick they have us selecting someone who isn't even in the draft anymore.

Ok Thunder fans how bout a change of pace and comming up with some thoughts for our latter pick at 25? Come on Joe....Royce...give us ur 2 cents on this issue.

I like I like....

@GAP
i like mcclinton, he can really shoot. if nothing else we can pick up more shooting late in the draft, which god knows we need. taking harden/curry and then another shooter would double our number of good 3 point shooters, that would be nice. sign gortat for a big and go from there.

Heck....if we can buy us a second round pick and pick up a Jack McClinton (I think it's spelled that way).

@J.G.
Well that ones shot down...lol, but we could go ahead and take curry then do the trade with Detroit and get that 15th pick. I'm kinda wanting to get Jodie Meeks, Jermaine Taylor or Marcus Thorthon with the 25th barring no trade with Detroit or some other team looking to trade down.

Good to see Austin making headlines. Or at least his lip. Twiggy isn't an adjective I've heard before, but that sums him up pretty well I suppose.
He once got hurt in practice and later that night told some of the team that he needed surgery and was out for the year. That was fun. Probably not doing that now.
I probably sound jealous and bitter there, so here's the positive on him: he really could be a good offensive player in the pros, he's really gifted. But KD looks like an Olympic weightlifter next to him, so he should probably work on that.

Kev :I still think the Grizzlies pick him at #2 and trade him . . .

That's exactly what I see happening. Either to Sacto at four or NY at eight is what I'm thinking. Maybe Washington jumps up to grab him... but I doubt it. I think they are looking big man.

By the way, does Chad Ford even update his mock drafts anymore?

@GAP
Rubio's handlers don't want him in Washington per Chad Ford, as he refuses to even meet with them. And Ford is also reporting that the Kings are wary of Rubio now. And that Rubio's agents have been furiously trying to broker a trade with the Grizz and Thunder's picks and other teams in the top 7, but so far there's been no bites.

Seems like less and less people are willing to give up anything for Rubio, and any pick past #5 means that Harden is gone.

Looking like there's a lot of baggage with Rubio with all things considered.

I still think the Grizzlies pick him at #2 and trade him . . .

We should just take Rubio with the 3rd pick and trade him to Washinton or even Sacramento and get Harden and another pick later in the draft plus maybe even get a big.

I can't get with a guy that quit three games into the season . . .

i hated laimbeer the player ...
he may be just what the thunder needs on the sidelines tho ...
he maximized his ability on the court ... & had a lot of fire & toughness (& cheating!) ..

something the thunder (& their coaches) could use a lot more of!

@Dooney
Zing!

speaking of gilbert .. thats who harden reminds me of ... the crafty scoring ability, shooting ability & sneaky athleticism ...
without all the superfluous flash - which is kinda what makes gilbert gilbert ... (& hopefully the constant injuries!) ...

in response to Rumble's response.... That's what she said.