Tulsa 66ers report; White and Weaver recalled
Reader Kev was at the 66ers game last night and had some great comments about D.J. White and Kyle Weaver’s performances. I thought it needed to be bumped up to maybe catch some more eyeballs.
Actually, White was not that good on the boards – he had seven boards – four were offensive and three of those were attempted tip ins – come on, if you’re 6-9 you should be able to get more than 3 defensive rebounds in 36 minutes of action. I didn’t see the aggressiveness from White that you need at THAT level to warrant time in the NBA. He was very good at jump shots, as he put in at least four of those from 15 to 19 feet. Sadly, he did very little post up work. In fact, he got the ball in the post TWICE all game. The first time he turned and faced immediately after catching it (he hit a jumper from about 12). The last time he fumbled the ball after starting to dribble, and almost turned it over in the process. He offered little defensive resistance inside all night, so (based off of one game I know) it doesn’t look promising.
Weaver looked okay at the point. He registered 11 assists, but when you play in a game in which transition and rotating defense is almost non existent, you can rack up the assists if you are a willing passer (which he is). He did okay at ball handling, even though he had two bad passes out of traps. With Livingston on hand, I don’t think he will be seeing the point with the Thunder anytime soon. Still, it was fun to see him take his “demotion” in stride – he was in a good mood the whole game, and even gave a fist pound to all the statisticans before gametime.
Great stuff. I’m a little disappointed about White’s post game. At Indiana he was lethal in the post. I hope he’s not trying to be a jump shooting big man. Been there, done that (Johan Petro). Also, you can check out last night’s 66ers box score here. Weaver played all 48 minutes and had 24 points (11-17 shooting), 11 assists and seven rebounds. White had 28 points and seven rebounds in 37 minutes of run.
Both players have been recalled and that’s the last time White is going down for the season. Under league rules, a player can only make three trips down and up between D-League and NBA. Hopefully White can get a little burn in these next seven games.
Also, Darnell Mayberry had an explanation as to why Weaver was sent down:
“He’s going to be able to play there two games and only miss one game here,” said Brooks, indicating Weaver is likely to be recalled prior to Sunday’s game against Indiana. ”I like what he has done for us, and he will continue to improve because he is a great worker. But he’s getting minutes down there and it helps when you get minutes. I know he was getting 16, 17 minutes up here, but he’s getting 40 minutes down there. I thought he did a good job. He was filling up the stat sheet. They didn’t win the game, but I thought his numbers and his play was pretty good. So he’s just getting an opportunity to play extra minutes.”
Need a SG who can shoot? Right now I’d plug in Durant occasionally against the right match-ups in the right moments- when you need 3 point shooting and tell him to let it rip.
you still have to start a SF – so whether you classify Durant as SG or PF you get the same restults – can’t just switch the names
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Durant is NO match for shooting guards on the defensive end – none whatsoever . . .
Durant at SG is mostly just a patch job / option til they get another shooter and as I said to free time for White but it might also be worth briefly checking back on Durant at SG – without PJ or Westhead- to determine how much was him playing out of position for poor offensive coaches and how much was just him stepping up / figuring out the game. Check him with a more experience Westbrook or Livingston. I just put him there 8 minutes a game. It is about experimenting now so you are ready to cut things down next season. Open a door again to either decide to keep it open a bit or close it permanently.
I was talking about defense – I won’t matter who’s coaching him – he can’t keep up with the quicker guys who usually play at the two vs the three- I am confident that was why Brooks immediately switched Durant up to the three . . .
Durant at SF works for Durant but not for the team- yet- so you either stay with that and hope it gets better or you keep experimenting with the new player combos. SG is unlikely the direction for more than spots if at all. PF is probably not the right move either at for now. If they get a stud PF though either Green becomes totally a bench player or you might have to look at Durant 1/4 to 1/2 at SG again. I see more to gain in terms of knowledge from a brief re-visit to Durant at SG – we’re talking 50 minutes or so- then adding 50 more minutes to the 2000+ you’ve already seen of Durant at SF this season.
please explain why Durant at SF doesn’t work for the team – are you telling me that he’s not a SF for any team? Where would YOU play him?? Where would any other team play him?? I am confused as to what point you are trying to make . . .
I said Durant at SG is a part of no stone left unturned several times.
He is estimated at almost -8 per 48 minutes on adjusted +/- playing 85% at SF. Worst on team this season. http://basketballvalue.com/teamplayers.php?year=2008-2009&team=OKC
Adjusted is crude and prone to significant errors at a rate of at least 1 in 3 but this estimate is saying that pro-rated to 40 minutes Durant’s net impact is almost -7 on a team that loses on average by 6 points a game. It is worse than last season.
My point is it will be very challenging to resolve this.
Yes he is a SF but you will need to find combos that work better than they have so far.
Durant has sometimes been compared to McGrady was far better at SG than SF this season. I don’t think McGrady is faster than Durant. Durant at SG a bit with better coaching , PG play and a tough interior big combo might- just might- play a minor role in an overall lineup strategy that emphasizes creating mismatches and forcing the other coach to scramble.
But if you or they have totally given up on Durant at SG at all that is fine. I wouldn’t use it more than 8 minutes and I wouldn’t “want” to use it period. If Presti gets the right starting SG they won’t have to. He hasn’t yet.
Trying Durant at PF another 50 -100 minutes would probably as or more useful. But that creates even more overlap between Durant and Green.
If you limited Durant to SG when playing a sub, who is not quick or a good finisher, or a good shooter period and when Durant’s outside shot is falling, and they have the lead or are way behind for 2-4 minute stretches does it work ok? Not great, just ok for the team, which would be an accomplishment given Durant’s overall adjusted and raw +/-? Presti can check those stats is he wants to. Better to know than not know.
Could you play some with Durant SG / Livingston SF on offense and the reverse on defense? Maybe you call that Durant playing SF still or you could say it is a little different. Could Livingston playing more inside, making hand-offs to cutters or slipping past a big guy work? Might be worth a few minutes look. Might be better than Westbrook-Livingston-Durant all stacked outside.
Sefolsha SG – Durant SF puts up another stinker first quarter -13 in less than 10 minutes. Are they going to keep doing that the rest of the season?
Want to make room for White and possibly another big? Slide Durant and Green down some or cut one or both’s time or cut Collison or Kristic’s. I’d do some of the first two more than the latter.
Sefolsha SG – Durant SF -14 in the 3rd. That ain’t fit.
I have noted the good and bad player pairs here and there but I’ll note the good and bad ones again in a broad overview and in specific lineup sets by Brooks and by myself.
Which player pairs are “best”? Hard to say without the adjusted player pairs but using some judgment it looks like the following:
Westbrook- Collison
Sefolosha- Weaver or Collison
Durant …
Green – Weaver
Collison – Kristic
That is really all that might be =consider better than normal.
How many times did my lineup rotation hit these 5 pairs? 20 times. An average of 2.5 times per lineup.
How many times did Brooks hit them in the Portland game? Just 4 times. Once a quarter. How many times did brooks hit them in the Portland game? 4 times. Obviously they aren’t steering the ship by this. Very different results in these games but that isn’t a surprise. Thunder are the 5th most inconsistent team in the league by one study.
I’d certainly recommend a lineup rotation that favored these best pairs far more heavily. It is still guessing but I think it is more likely to be better guessing, better fit.
What about the really bad ones? they are:
Durant- Sefolosha, Green, Kristic
Green -Sefolosha
How many did Brooks play in 2 previous games? 12 and 16.
How many did I use? 16. I should and probably could reduce that.
So I tried a rearrangement and got 26 good pairs and 12 bad ones. In a few minutes work.
Westbrook Livingston Durant White Kristic
Westbrook Sefolosha Green Collison Kristic
Livingston Weaver Durant Green Kristic
Westbrook Weaver Sefolosha Green Collison
Westbrook Livingston Durant White Collison
Westbrook Weaver Sefolosha Green Collison
Westbrook Livingston Durant Collison Kristic
Livingston Weaver Durant Green White
Westbrook Weaver Sefolosha Collison Kristic
Livingston Weaver Durant Green Kristic
Westbrook Weaver Durant Collison Kristic
Westbrook Sefolosha Durant Green Collison
Westbrook 36
Livingston 24
Weaver 28
Sefolosha20
Durant 32
Green 28
White 12
Collison32
Kristic 28
240
Does it have glitches? Of course. Does it have merit? I think so.
My average lineup has 3 positive player pairs and 1.5 bad ones.
Brooks in these 2 games was roughly speaking at about .5 good and 2 bad ones.
Pretty big difference.
I might well be overrating this form of analysis but I’d say they are under using it too.
Both Brooks good and bad pairs might need to be raised some as the 2 accounting methods weren’t exactly equal but the big overall difference would remain.
The current starting lineup is 0 good player pairs and 4 bad ones. Out of 10 pairs. That’s not good and I’d guess it will be an uphill struggle to make it work. the poor +/- lineup results is in synch with the pair data.
Westbrook – Weaver – Green – Collison – Krstic? 3 good, none bad.
Have they tried it? Not a single second all season. Tried hundreds of lineups but not this one. What up Sam?