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Yeah, Kenyon Martin is getting old, but the point I was making is that he is about the same size and skill of Green. Except, Green is a better shooter. Green can play the four as well as Kenyon Martin probably ever could.

I do think Green can handle West in the post. West doesn't do that much post work, and really neither does Green, but he does more than West. West gets 71 percent of his offense from long jumpshots. Green only 64 percent. As a comparison, Collison, a true banger in the post only gets 29 percent of his offense from outside. So really, West is mostly a pick and pop guy, Green gets inside a bit more, and Colly camps in there.

Of the Two, Green has the higher likelihood that he can become a real true 2 way player: inside/outside, because he is just 22 years old and is still growing his game. West is close to thirty, and probably won't change that much more.

@okcnba@Joe
I didn't understand your question. What do you mean who is getting bagged?

Kenyon Martin is pretty much over the hill, i dont think it matters what position he plays anymore.
Also, i dont think Green could stick West in the paint.

The Spurs model or something like it is probably the way to go.

Going to too heavy on moderate talent MLE or a bit above guys is not.
Only 2 teams have more than 6 guys over $6 million (NY and Indiana)

Westbrook-Durant-Green-Collison- next contract Kristic- the next one or two high 1 st rounders would be pushing into the later territory eventually if it goes that way. But that is a ways off.

Right on Joe. Perfect example. If Durant continues to evolve into the player we want, he'll be in that $18-20 range. I think $10 is reasonable for Jeff and $10-12 for Westbrook (if he continues to improve) sounds right.

Green can play the PF position as well as David West or Kenyon Martin, and is indeed about the same size.

And as far as the salary cap issue goes, I think the model may be the Spurs, or something like it.

Timmy Duncan gets 18-22 mill, Durant may get this money some day
Ginobli get 10 mil-Jeff Green
Parker gets 12 mil-Westbrook someday?

Nobody else makes more than 4.2 Million (except Gooden who I hear is going to sign). They are at 68 mil. Above the cap but below the penalty. The big three were all drafted, not signed.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but when a guy gets moved to a new position and averages Ron Artest-esque numbers, and is a Most Improved Player of the Year candidate, I would keep him at that position.

@Brian
Wait, who's getting bagged?

@Vega
Green may be 6'10 but he does not have the muscle mass to play the position and bag with "real" PFs.

I meant that to be @Brian

@Vega
I didn't mean to imply that being near the luxury tax makes you a good team. What I said was that having 5 players who DESERVE that much money means we are starting one hell of a lineup. If this isn't a good team when it is up against the luxury tax, then guys are getting seriously overpaid.

Also, while I love Uncle Jeff, I do think he needs to gain 25 lbs of muscle or start thinking about a sixth man role. Green is a hot commodity with his versatility and contract. I could easily see him being moved for an all-star from a team trying to cut salary. Whether that is what this team needs is up to Brooks and Presti.

Why not play him at PF? The dude is 6'10!

I didnt say trade him because he wont be good. I said trade him because 1st:Green and Durant play the same positon 2nd: He shouldnt be playing PF and 3rd:You dont pay a 6th man $8M.

I agree that he will be a really good player.

I don't think that the Thunder should go after any big name free agents. Let the current crew develop, draft well, and, when the core is complete, trade for role players like Sefolosha. And as far as Green goes, I think that it would be crazy to trade him. He is the next Ron Artest. (The good parts of Ron Artest.) You don't trade someone like that.

@ Keith
I dont agree with your statement that if your team is close to the luxury tax threshold because of starting salaries then you must be a good team.
The Pacers are near the threshold and there paying Murphy and Dunleavy $10M each, and those two guys do not deserve those deals.

@Steve H
About the free agency thing, that is really what I was getting at. Though I would include Boozer. Not because he's that good, but because he has a higher opinion of himself than is the case.

Though perhaps more importantly, I don't think there are many high level free agents around this year that would fit with this team. Lee is even smaller than Collison and can't bang with real centers either. Boozer I don't think is going to opt out with the market so bad this year. Millsap I really like, but he's a PF. Unless Green is ok playing sixth man or Presti uses Green to trade for an all-star (buyer's market), it wouldn't work out well. All the best players and best fits are only available via trade, which is just as good.

I don't think paying the big 3 plus other first rounders is going to be as hard as it's being made out to be. Right now, the only player who looks like a max deal guy is Kid Delicious. Green, as Crow said, is probably an 8-10 million guy after his rookie contract. Westbrook could be a 10-12 million guy, but that's assuming he becomes Monta Ellis on offense.

That looks like a lot, but remember two things. First, the vast majority of every team's payroll is spent on it's starters, and that normally takes teams close or above the cap on its own. Two, if by some magic all of the players drafted/signed are worth enough to push this team near the luxury tax, it will be fantastic. Why? If they are all worth that much, then the team must be very very good. Also, if they are worth that much, then they can easily be traded for high quality role players and young guys, keeping the team competitive while also improving the bench.

I think the best thing about it all is that Presti won't have to guess at it. Portland is going to run into the exact same situation about 2 years before the Thunder do. We can sit back and watch the Blazers figure it out or screw it up. Either way, we'll know what will and won't work.

Cap management is tricky and there will be challenges as you say Brian.

It would be very hard to pay the "big 3" what the market rate suggested from the past and the next one or two high first rounders and Collison and Krstic and Watson or his replacement and the Sefolsha / White etc. quality role players.

But the economic climate and the next CBA might make it easier to afford to keep a Green. If he were a free agent today would you pay him $8 million, $6.5 million, maybe get away with just $5 mil if the demand isn't there? He is nice but he isn't a must have kind of player, at least yet.

the thought of robert swift playing more than ten minutes just made me break out in hives...

KD will be pulling down 13-15 mill per IF he cuts Presti a break to help out with the overall payroll.@Brian

Im gonna try to make this as simple as possible:
The NBA salary cap is 65 and lets say its gonna be around there in a few years once the economy settles down and the kids are in for their extensions.
The way i see it is :
Durant $10M a yr
Green:$8M a yr
Westbrook: $8-10M

OKC does not have the money to go all the way to the luxury tax threshold.
BY putting $30 into there three core players and then one lottery pick this year making $4-5M we could not take the chance on missing on a free agent like Lee or Boozer who would command $10 or take on Chandlers $10M+ contract. If we were to have Westbrook, Durant and Green plus one of the free agents that many people are recommending we would be saying that we can win a championship with that group if players plus a few role players. I dont think OKC can. I think eventually Presti will trade Green because he really cant play PF and earn $8M as a 6th man. That would leave OKC with Durant and Westbrook soaking up $20-30M.
I dont want anyone to start wailing at me but i think Durant will be as good as MJ.
Jordan had him and Pippen, two top 50 all time players, and a bunch of role players. With that squad they won multiple championships. If Westbrook is good enough to be Durant's Pippen i think Presti can put together the role players he needs to win a championship while not exceeding the tax like he saw RC Buford do in San Antonio.
That's my opinion of how it will probably go down and should go down.

A couple posts back I disagreed with you about our prospects of landing a big free agent. I think I actually DO agree with you if we are talking Kobe,Labron,Wade sized free agents. The monster contracts it would take to land one of those whales would break our small market team, and would never be offered by an operator as shrewd as Presti in the first place. My thoughts were directed at the likes of Boozer or David Lee this summer. I still believe that we could pick up either of those two if Presti decides he wants to go after them.@Keith

I guess I'm just an eternally -glass is half full- kind of fan. That Thabo dude was killing our lottery chances. As long as the "Swiss Connection"- anybody? anybody?- is 100% next November, I'm taking this as good news.@Royce

Good point, Vega. If we were in the hunt for that last playoff seed, this would obviously be terrible, but we're not, and it's not like this is going to forever change the team. The Thunder have, comparatively, been very healthy this season. Our top players have missed a total of 6 games so far. If both Green and Durant miss tomorrow, it will be 8. I don't think there's a single playoff team this year that has been so healthy.

It sucks because we obviously have been playing well the last 3 games, but it hopefully just gets those guys that will be on the bench next year better prepared to contribute. Do I think the streak is over? Yeah, it probably is. But having everyone healthy has still only made us a 50/50 team in 2009.

Get well soon guys! But don't hurt yourselves more trying to keep up a win streak (that in the grand scheme of things, is still just practice for next year).

There goes our playoff run!

I don't think we can spin Thabo's injury being good for the team in the long run because we have NO CHANCE if he doesn't play.

The good thing is that, with the exception of Dez, these injuries are minor.

How did this happen? I don't remember seeing him tweak it during a game, so maybe it was in practice?

SIGH.

It could be worse. We could be the Wizards.