The value in keeping Joe Smith
It seems like every team out there is after Joe Smith. Like the three buzzards in the Jungle Book, they’re just perched on a limb waiting for Sam Presti to pay Joe his money and turn him loose. Cleveland’s salivating over him. Boston wanted him but settled on Mikki “hands in the pants” Moore instead. Phoenix really needs him. Most think Smith is going to get bought out soon and snatched up by a playoff squad.
But it hasn’t happened yet. And quite honestly, who knows if it will happen at all. And if it doesn’t by March 1st, it ain’t happening at all (players waived after March 1st can’t be included on playoff rosters). But why? Why wouldn’t OKC waive Smith and why wouldn’t Smith want to be waived? He’s extremely attractive to a lot of teams because his contract is up this year and because he’s a valuable veteran that can provide court savvy and points off the bench. He’d save the Thunder some money and he’s not really adding much as is. So why not?
I think the simple answer is that he wants to stay with the Thunder. That’s it. He likes where he’s at. He’s said already that he’s got no desire to latch on to another team and chase a title in his twilight. He likes where he’s at. He likes playing with these young guys and I think he wants to have a hand in building this budding franchise. Sure the team may be 13-44, but like everybody that has a functioning brain, he sees how bright the future is. And he wants to be part of it.
And if Joe Smith wants to stay, the Thunder really don’t gain a whole lot by waiving him. He had a ton of value in the trade market but that didn’t get done, so OKC can’t get much in return for waiving him. His contract is up this summer anyway so basically all the Thunder would gain is an open roster spot and maybe save a few bucks on finishing out Smith’s salary.
So if he doesn’t want to go, is that worth it? An open roster spot and a coupon on his salary? Most times you waive a veteran player in this situation more as a favor than anything else and if Smith doesn’t want it, then there’s no reason for it to happen. Sure OKC could reduce its payroll a little (he makes $4.75 million – all guaranteed – and OKC would be able reduce its payroll the amount Smith is still owed), but again is that really a big deal? Does that outweigh what Smith could add?
Well, what can a 33-year-old power forward add to a team with a solid youth movement underway? Let me tell you: Leadership, locker room presence and experience. All very valuable commodities for a team that is basically made up of rookies and second year players. And if Smith really wants to be a part of building a contender rather than jumping to the current hot team, what’s to say the Thunder don’t resign him to a one-year deal? Smith is a perfect veteran to have off the bench. He’s productive, he’s smart and he’s a total class act. Other teams are dying for him so obviously that means he’s got some worth to a good team. And if the Thunder intend on being good in the next year or two, wouldn’t Smith be a nice piece to the puzzle?
Scott Brooks thinks so:
“I admire Joe Smith’s professionalism, how he takes his time with our guys,” Brooks said. “And he’s a great veteran leader. I’m not concerned with the business side of it. I have to coach the guys that we have. That’s going to be between (general manager) Sam (Presti) and (Smith’s) agent. I don’t know what’s happening. I just know I like what Joe brings to this team. Joe’s perfect for this team. He’s been terrific for us.”
He’s averaging 6.6 ppg anf 4.5 rpg in limited minutes, but he’s good for 14 and 7 any given night. He’s a perfect pick-and-pop center and he’s not afraid to be physical. One of the main issues (among many) OKC has right now is a complete lack of depth. Currently, the Thunder goes about eight deep, with limited bench contributions from the frontcourt. Nenad Krstic is starting and basically Nick Collison is the only help off the bench. Robert Swift isn’t giving you anything and Lord knows if Malik Rose even puts on a uniform under that warmup. And if the Thunder plans to get in the playoff conversation next year, they’re going to need some depth and are going to need a player or two like Joe Smith.
Now if he’s looking for a multi-year deal or more than $2 million per, then I don’t think he fits. But I’d sign a savvy veteran piece for that price. Especially if he really, really wants to be here. If the Thunder’s fighting for the playoffs next year, they’ll likely be looking to trade for a player like Smith anyway. I realize he’s one of the coveted expiring contracts that frees up cap space so why on earth would OKC keep him around but I’m telling you, every good team has a guy like Joe Smith.
Again, Smith may be posturing and may be working on a buyout right now. He may be waived tomorrow morning. But judging by his and Scott Brooks’ quotes, it seems like he fits with this team. His career is winding down and like he said, he’s doesn’t feel the need to chase a title. He wouldn’t get that much satisfaction in joining a team three-fourths of the way through just to make a playoff run. I think he’d get more satisfaction in being part of the first Thunder team that makes a run to the playoffs. And that’s reason enough for me to want to keep him. He’s part of this team’s awesome chemistry and he wants to build a contender. That’s his championship. And if that’s the favor he wants, I hope Sam Presti gives it to him.
To me is pretty simple… If Joe wants to stay, you keep him. If he wants to leave, you buy him out. So the question is… Does Joe really want to stay?
Exactly. And unless he’s just posturing, I think he wants to stay. Which I respect the heck out of and makes me want to keep him for next year.
Royce:
I have two questions that I can’t seem to figure out my self.
First of all i think i understand that OKC’s starting lineup is Westbrook Sefolosha Durant Green And Collision.
What i cant figure out is if Brooks are running a 8 or 9 man rotation and what players round out the rotation after the starting lineup.
Can you answer that for me.
I like Joe…but I also like Desmond…
Do you really think we’ll resign both? I hope so…and it seems like both have said things implying that they want to stay…but can we really keep both if they ask for to much?
Well, lately the starting five has been Westbrook, Thabo, Durant, Green and Krstic. And off the bench he’s been using Watson, Weaver and Collison. And if Brooks so chooses to use a ninth, it’s typically Chucky Atkins. That’s a dang thin bench. (That’s without using Joe Smith who hasn’t played in the last five.)
And as for keeping both Desmond and Joe, that would be tough. Especially because Des has still got some good years in front of him and will likely want multiple years and a decent contract. And with Thabo and Weaver coming on, there’s not a ton of room for him. But like you, I’d love to keep him. But not unless the price is right.
Presti gets D West in the Allen trade then dumps him as a throw in to get rid of Wally’s deal. Last season West is a far bettershooter than Westbrook at 1/3rd the turnovers. Or you could have put them together. But Presti choose PJ to lead and PJ and Presti couldnt communicate / channel West. Cavs win.
Make that West better this season.
Presti takes tweener forward Green to pair with Durant with quite weak defensive results. Noah was available. Putting up per minute numbers equal or better than Chandler at 1/4 to 1/5th cost and being under and poorly utilized at that. Half the cost of Krstic.
I think Joe Smith and Des Mason’s futures both lie in Presti’s little laboratory. He’s mixing this soup together and some of the ingredients have been hard to come by and so he is doing with what is on hand.
He tried to get a two guard who plays offense and defense (cj Miles), but Utah matched, so instead he has Mason. Then he gets Tbone and Weaver in trades, who both play defense and not so much offense. Not the ideal two guards, but what was available and “almost” what he wanted. We needed something at Center and he went out and got Krstic. He’s not Tim Duncan, but he’s what’s available.
If Joe wants to stay next year, it will probably be tied to his salary desires and what else is going on with the roster. There will be spots (Swift won’t be back, Rose either, maybe not Chucky)but there will be more competition adding two new first rounders….
Same with Mason. Now he has to compete with Tbone, Weaver and one or two firsts as wings depending on what’s available.
Man, Joe Smith was a beast in college. I still can’t believe he never materialized into a dominant pro. Probably too small for his position? Anyway, I’ve always really liked him and am glad/a little surprised he likes OKC that much. Awesome.
i really think that Joe Smith is being generous to the management team. an nba player is lying when he says that he wants to stay to a team that is struggling to finish games and an opportunity of a lifetime to go to a contending team that will actually use his services instead of just being this “veteran-savvy locker room guy” to a young rebuilding Thunder team where Joe Smith does not play that often. why pay a guy $4.75 million to have him just be around.
WHY IN THE HELL DO THEY WANT HIM TO STAY??? THEY HAVEN’T USED HIM IN 5 DAMN GAMES. AT ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!
The Ridnour trade was a poor one. Mason and Smith really added very little. Watson still around has contributed to the jack the shot up going for stats mentality that is bad cultural influence on Westbrook especially.
The cold feet on the Chandler deal might have cost the Thunder KD.
With Chandler I’d assume 30+ wins next season mimimum. Without I wouldn’t bet on it. April 2011 is rolling up on Presti and July 2011 KD takes the qualifying offer unless things are rolling by then. Chandler would have added to the equation for attracting other free agents. Who are needed.
Can Sam Presti send me $290,000, too?
Because that’s how much it cost for Joe Smith to sit on the bench for the past 5 games.
I didn’t play either.
I can’t help but wonder if the cyst on Joe’s knee is still bothering him. If you remember, Brooks had no problems rotating him in after that last flare up died down.
You also have to consider that the last 3 games, we’ve played the Suns, the Warriors and the Lakers; not exactly slow teams.
I was shocked when we didn’t get either a young player or draft pick for Smith at the trade deadline, and can only assume that Presti gon nothing but lowball offers because other GMs assumed we would buy him out, and they could get him for nothing. Love Joe’s game, but he has no future on a young team already stocked at PF (Green,Collison,D.J.White,Ibaka)that is hopefully looking to upgrade at that position as well (Lee?Boozer?Griffin?). IF we hang on to Smith for the remainder, it will be to send a message to the other GMs in the league- If you want an expiring Thunder player, pony up an offer- because we will EAT their contract before we give them away.
I don’t think we go .500 ball in January without Desmond Mason. And I think going .500 ball showed the players and the world that this team is fiesty and has no quit, and that with a few tweaks to the roster this team can be competitive right away. Just for that I think the trade was worthwhile, especially since hindsight is always 20-20 right?
That being said, I wrote more than once that we traded the wrong guy in Ridnour, but my guess is that the better offer came for Rid and not Earl. Earl is okay at a few things and great at nothing. Rid at least is a very good pass first point guard, (boy wouldn’t that be nice to have right now with Green and Durant getting so much better on offense) and his defensive rating shows that he is not a complete sieve on defense as he was always accused of.
“Name the last big name who came off his rookie contract and signed with another team? It’s tough isn’t it. I can think of Shaq with Orlando, which was a looong time ago. After that I draw blanks.”
Not a lot but… McGrady, Marbury, Joe Johnson, Billups, Dampier, Juwan Howard I think, E Curry, soon B Gordon, others will do it
Scratch Dampier.
Wait n see on David Lee
Childress is sorta. Keep an eye on Thaddeus Young.
Jeff Green, Westbrook.
Brian Grant. Kenyon Martin via sign n trade. Ratliff. B Knight. Stoudamire.
Turloglu.
I might be off one or a few.
There were also special cases in Arenas and Boozer.
Pietrus. Salmons. Watch Kleiza, Gay. Radmanovic. Probably Felton.
Not all big names I grant but just checking.
Milsap? Probably Charlie V. Mayo.
Hindsight isn’t always 20-20. Players bounce around. Call something and there is still a pretty good chance it turns around on you soon.
I certainly didn’t predict great things from Ridnour.
But evaluation of a GM involves looking backwards and what if.
There is fair but there is also good and bad in hindsight.
No, that’s not what I’m talking about. I’m talking about a player who becomes a star and is looking at somewhere near max money and leaves that team that drafted him for somebody else and took less money to do it. Those on your list aren’t what I meant.
I’m not talking about guys like Turkoglu, he was no where near max money, or Ben Gordon etc. Those guys aren’t the same issue at all as Kevin Durant. What I am talking about is the guys like Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Nowitzki, Carter, etc. All of those guys took their drafting team’s money.
McGrady, J Howard and Marbury were under different rules but they took equal money elsewhere.
Joe Johnson and Kenyon Martin used the leverage of not agreeing to re-sign for more money to get equal money via sign n trade. Ben Gordon is probably going to get that or meet your criteria exactly.
Damon Stoudamire made clear he wasn’t going to re-sign and got a trade to a team he would sign with. So do Zo and others.
David Lee has a high probability of doing one of the strategies.
We’ll see on Durant, green and Westbrook. I expect one or more will exit by one means or the other. Maybe Durant is actually least likely.
Part of why I say that is because Presti / Brooks have allowed or heavily encouraged Westbrook and Green to think and act like potential to regular 20 point scorers. Anytime you encourage or allow that you are setting yourself for the agent to ask for near or all of the max. Is Green or Westbrook going to be worth the max? Are they both? Are you goin gto have enough left for a quality rest of the rotation? By giving them all this offensive freedom they are earning experience rapidly but they are also locking in on expected # of shots and money. And probably too high in my early estimation. But this is Presti’s show and Presti’s consequence to face. He either wants what he fostered or is going to have to trim sails (shots and money expectations) next season. But it may be too late for that.
Green is not going to want to go back to being a 10-12 shot third option. He wants to be the clear #2 or even in his heart of hearts the #1. If he can’t be that he might want to be the #3 on already really good team or in the city of his choice.
Westbrook has been allowed to keep from Rondo like role to wanting to be a #2 or #1. He is simply not going to settle for being 4th option now. Or likely even third. He will look around to see if he can go where he can be #2 or #1.
Player goals are always to be bigger but the way they have been managed or not managed (depending on what Presti’s real plan is from them ) has put bigger pressure on the situation.
should be Westbrook allowed to “jump” from…